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I was baptized at 9 and was raised a member and went on a mission. At 23 I was married to a 16 year old girl I met when she was 15. She came to a Young Adult group I went to when I was in the Air Force going to Tech School (this was in the early 1970’s so no internet). We were both virgins and had no clue about sex and after marriage our sex life was terrible for several years because neither of us had a clue about sex. We received absolute NO counseling from the church and were on our own trying to figure out what to do and how to do it. I tried a lot of things that I read about in non-church sources and from listening to non-members describing their sex lives. I was married to her for 18 years before we divorced for other reasons. When I was 55 I met and married a woman who was 50. She was not a member of the church and had a rather lengthy sexual history. Our sex life is awesome. She joined the church about 5 years ago.
Now as for my question. I recently came across an old letter saying that oral and anal sex is not allowed and goes against the law of god and that sex is only for having children not to be enjoyed or for recreation. And in searching I found several other sources stating that various church leaders have also said not to do it. Is this right?
If so it appears I am definitely going to hell because those are things I and both my wives have enjoyed. Am I breaking some stupid rule? How do LDS women get any satisfaction (orgasms) if there is no oral stimulation or anything that brings them enjoyment?
My second son also recently got married to a girl from the Philippines in 2018. He said he got no counseling from the church about marriage or sex. He said he relied on his sex education classes and watching porn (yeah he knows it is illegal but it helped) to know what to do after he was married. He said his wife had NO clue about sex and he had to teach her. He also has done oral and anal and other things and says he enjoys sex for recreation and the church be damned if they try to stop him.
I believe the teachings you refer to are – as in “old letter” – old and no longer taught or held. As far as I understand what married members do in private is their business. I have been a member since 1981, including leadership positions, and have never heard the teaching directly. For the record I don’t think it’s necessarily the church’s job to teach one the how to’s of sex.
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True that letter is an old one but at the time it was pretty much doctrine at the time. I have also came across that some church authorities have expressed views on what is “unnatural” so I was wondering. I guess the church has changed its stand and now goes with “if both in the marriage agree with it, go ahead and do it” So I guess anything goes then. It is so confusing when I have questions and get answers all over the place. Does this also include masturbation before and after marriage or is that a whole different thing? I know back in the 60’s when I was a teen that was next to murder and a huge no no.
M is not asked about in TR questions or the standard missionary interview questions. While I’m sure there are rogue and old school leaders, it should not be asked about in youth interviews. This topic has been discussed here in the past, using the search function will yield results.
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For the sake of any lurkers out there, I think it might be important to clarify what the church position is in these matters.
Gomezaddams51 wrote:
I guess the church has changed its stand and now goes with “if both in the marriage agree with it, go ahead and do it” So I guess anything goes then.
I understand the current church position to be that sex acts between married persons that bring goodness to and strengthen the relationship are nobody else’s business. I think it is up to each couple to carefully evaluate and determine these things for themselves with complete consideration and mutual respect for your married partner. There are no “LDS rules” for married people and no TR questions that would apply as long as you are not mistreating your spouse or breaking the law of chastity.
Gomezaddams51 wrote:
Does this also include masturbation before and after marriage or is that a whole different thing? I know back in the 60’s when I was a teen that was next to murder and a huge no no.
Masturbation was never “next to murder” but I can understand why some might get that idea. It was probably promoted as such during the time as a fear tactic. More recently, masturbation seems to be in a much more grey area. It is not asked about in the official TR questions and it is not mentioned in the most recent version of the handbook (previous mentions have been removed). It is alluded to/hinted at and discouraged in the For the Strength of Youth booklet and pamphlet. A few years ago the president of BYU-I described masturbation as something that could over time lead to sin (which means, if you read between the lines, that it is not sin in and of itself).
Gomezaddams51 wrote:
He said he got no counseling from the church about marriage or sex.
DarkJedi wrote:
For the record I don’t think it’s necessarily the church’s job to teach one the how to’s of sex.
A very big AMEN to what DJ said. The church in the past has sometimes stuck it’s nose into the marital bed relationship and it did not go well. Thankfully, church leaders have learned from this experience and stay out of it as long as there is no abuse or coercion involved. Spouses should have the utmost respect and consideration for each other and use exploration and personal revelation to determine what brings “goodness” to the relationship. This means that what brings goodness for one couple might not bring goodness for another couple.
Lastly, I very much recommend LDS sex therapist Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. If anyone LDS person is struggling with such issues, check out her work.
For clarity: LDS Family Services includes counseling, which includes marriage counseling for people who need it. Sex can be part of that counseling.
As with any other counseling organization, results can vary by counselor – and by personality match with the client(s).
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