Question on Marriage in the Plan of Salvation

[Anonymous]

Here is a question that kind of goes along with the Plan of Salvation question. I was married to my first wife in the SLC Temple in 1973. 18 years later we were divorced but did not get a Temple divorce so are we still married according to the church? Secondly I am remarried and my wife wants to go to the Temple and get sealed. She was baptized a few years after we were married civilly. If I get sealed to her, am I married to both or what is going to happen if by some strange chance we all end up together in the same kingdom? My present wife is not exactly thrilled about being the second wife. LOL

So anyone have any ideas on what I am in for?

[Anonymous]

The short version… it’s confusing.

Your best bet to untangle the web is section 38.4 of the handbook.

Here’s one section (emphasis added):

38.4.1.4 Handbook wrote:

Applying for a Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance

A woman who has previously been sealed must receive a cancellation of that sealing from the First Presidency before she may be sealed to another man in her lifetime. A man who has been divorced from a woman who was sealed to him must receive a sealing clearance from the First Presidency before another woman may be sealed to him (see 38.4.1.2).

I don’t know the spiritual distinction between a cancellation and a clearance. At first glance it sounds like the man can be sealed to both his ex-wife and current wife, provided his ex-wife has not requested a cancellation due to getting sealed to someone else in the temple.

If that interpretation is correct, I’m both surprised and shocked. I had assumed that a cancellation was required for either the man or the woman.

[Anonymous]

I have never had anything canceled and neither has my first wife. My first wife never wanted the divorce. We were both virgins when we got married and knew nothing about sex. We were raised by parents who thought sex was a taboo subject and only told us that we had to wait until marriage to have sex. When we got married our wedding night totally sucked since neither of us had a clue about what to do. My wife hated sex from that night on and we rarely had sex, mostly when she decided she wanted a baby. After the birth of our 4th baby at our 8th year of marriage she informed me she never wanted to have sex again. And I was brainwashed that marriage was forever so I thought I was stuck with her and with a marriage I hated. I survived for 10 more sexless years and finally could take it no more and divorced her. Looking back now, I should have cheated and got the sex she was denying me (man I wanted to cheat but never did), or divorced her. I told my wife I wanted a divorce and she cried and begged me not to divorce her because she loved me. I told her “where was that love when I wanted sex.” I basically forced her to sign the papers. Life was so much better and I actually had sex with women. They taught me a lot, basically everything I should have known when I first got married.

I married my second wife when I was 55 and she was 50. I would much rather be married to her. She loves sex and we are happy.

#341930

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

The short version… it’s confusing.

Your best bet to untangle the web is section 38.4 of the handbook.

Here’s one section (emphasis added):

38.4.1.4 Handbook wrote:

Applying for a Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance

A woman who has previously been sealed must receive a cancellation of that sealing from the First Presidency before she may be sealed to another man in her lifetime. A man who has been divorced from a woman who was sealed to him must receive a sealing clearance from the First Presidency before another woman may be sealed to him (see 38.4.1.2).

I don’t know the spiritual distinction between a cancellation and a clearance. At first glance it sounds like the man can be sealed to both his ex-wife and current wife, provided his ex-wife has not requested a cancellation due to getting sealed to someone else in the temple.

If that interpretation is correct, I’m both surprised and shocked. I had assumed that a cancellation was required for either the man or the woman.

Not surprised, but I already knew it was this way. It’s part of the argument made that the church still practices polygamy and that polygamy is an eternal principal. :think: Not sure if it’s still the case, but those cancellations/clearances are not just there for the asking either (IOW, the FP didn’t just approve because you asked.)

So, back to the OP, the best and correct answer is not going to come from here – you need to ask your bishop and SP. We are happy to present our opinions on the way we each think it ought to be though. My personal belief is God sorts it all out. Or maybe Jesus’s teaching that we are neither married nor given in marriage in the resurrection is actually correct and we’re like the Sadducees and err.

[Anonymous]

You have the official answer.

My view: I hope we are with the one(s) we love, in some way that will be joy-filled for us. Beyond that, I honestly don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Yeah I guess no one will know. Sometimes I feel like god is a sociopath and it makes him hard to trust him. About the only thing I can do is hope that he will take my mental problems into consideration and lets me plea bargain… LOL

[Anonymous]

Gomezaddams51 wrote:

I feel like god is a sociopath and it makes him hard to trust him.

I have sometimes had similar thoughts myself.

A friend has told me, “Maybe it is ok to become disillusioned with our concept of God because we all worship a false God on some level.”

This was really impactful for me. The ways in which we think of God could be way off base. When we shift our view of God and Godliness, we might be discarding false and unhelpful notions.

I currently believe in a God that is 100% loving, 100% accepting and understanding, 100% encouraging. I do not, for example, believe in a God that would condemn some of his children to eternal torture and burning. I do not think that my conceptions of God are more true than other people’s conceptions but since nobody really knows for sure, I might as well have the conceptions that make the most sense and meaning for me personally. If we are all wrong, then I might as well be wrong in a unique and special way.

Gomezaddams51 wrote:

So anyone have any ideas on what I am in for?

To answer your question in your OP, I believe that you get to imagine whatever family situation in heaven that you might want. I figure that God will take the best scenario that I can imagine and then he will add even more wonderfulness on top of it.

[Anonymous]

“To answer your question in your OP, I believe that you get to imagine whatever family situation in heaven that you might want. I figure that God will take the best scenario that I can imagine and then he will add even more wonderfulness on top of it.”

I hope so. I am so tired of everything going wrong and every decision I make that seems like it is good turns out to be wrong. I spent most of the first year of my life in an orphanage which totally mess me up mentally and turned me into a Schizoid. I end up scared of girls because my adopted mother made me that way so I didn’t date. I make a bunch of bad choices even though I thought they were good at the time. I get married and she turns out to suffer from depression and was probably Bi-Polar and she gained over 400 pounds and hated sex so we rarely had it. About the only thing that is good is I had 4 kids. Later on I take my motorcycle in to a guy who has been working on for 10 years and never had a problem and fixed all sort of bikes and a week after I take my bike to him he goes to prison and I get most of my bike back in pieces. I buy a car and it falls apart. I could go on and on with a list of bad things.

And I won’t even go into my health physical and mental. Seems like it is one thing after another. I end up with depression from dealing with my wife and staying with her for 18 long years before I finally said to hell with the no divorce thing and divorced her. Unfortunately the anti-depressants gave me sexual problems so I could rarely perform and then I finally find I wife that I thought was a good choice and she turns out not exactly what I thought she was not to mention I end up with ED then a few years I end up with nerve damage and my lower spinal cord is all messed up, I had a cyst on my spinal cord and a bunch of bad discs and now I can barely walk. It just keeps getting worse and worse so god had better do something because I am tired of getting screwed over my whole life. I feel like god owes me big time.

[Anonymous]

Hi Gomez,

I am sorry for what you have gone through. I think that part of the allure of religion is the desire for justice. Essentially, I think that we want (at least in part) for things to be fair. We can clearly see that things are not fair in this life. The idea is that in the next life things will be remedied. The good people (and those oppressed or downtrodden) will be rewarded and the bad people (oppressors) will receive their comeuppance.

It seems clear that you have had more than your fair share of challenges. I am sorry for that.

[Anonymous]

I kind of look at life like this and the different types of people:

There is a huge room filled halfway with crap. You walk through waist deep and there are different kinds of people.

1. They walk through and stick their hands down in it and they come up with a hand full of jewels not all the time but a majority of the time.

2. They walk through and stick their hands in and come up with a hand full of silver and an occasional gold piece but only every 10 or 20 times.

3. They walk through and stick their hands down and come up with an occasional penny or two but mostly end up with crap.

4. They walk through and stick their hands down and only come up with crap.

5. The last group sticks their hands down and only come up with crap but they also catch a disease from the crap.

That is how I view life. I feel like I am #4 or 5 most of my life.

[Anonymous]

Gomezaddams51 wrote:

That is how I view life. I feel like I am #4 or 5 most of my life.

I feel that our church ‘s theology works best for people that have come from fairly stable homes with good childhoods. Our emphasis on individual choice and blessings/rewards for good behavior fit in well with such formative experiences.

I believe that our theology appeals less well to those that have experienced a life of hardship that they did not choose and that they seem to be powerless to escape from.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

I feel that our church ‘s theology works best for people that have come from fairly stable homes with good childhoods. Our emphasis on individual choice and blessings/rewards for good behavior fit in well with such formative experiences.

I believe that our theology appeals less well to those that have experienced a life of hardship that they did not choose and that they seem to be powerless to escape from.

I don’t totally disagree, but I am somewhat of an enigma then. But I also recognize I’m not the norm. And that’s the interesting thing about your post and thoughts – I think Jesus himself in His day appealed most to those who experienced those kinds of hardships and were hopeless – those who couldn’t live up to the demands the church (especially the Pharisees) of the time placed on them. Yet here we are pretty much as you observe, generally having lost sight of this:

Quote:

The Church is not an automobile showroom – a place to put ourselves on display so that others can admire our spirituality, capacity, or prosperity. It is more like a service center, where vehicles in need of repair come for maintenance and rehabilitation.

(Dieter Uchtdorf)

Quote:

The Church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, or have perfect thoughts, or have perfect feelings. The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.

(Joseph Wirthlin)

[Anonymous]

If everything that I have been taught is true I feel like I was screwed in this life and will probably be screwed in the next. There are so many things I missed out on and wish I could have done but circumstances and my mental and physical health has caused so many problems that I have no idea what is going to happen to me other than it will probably be bad. LOL I know I sound like I am whining but circumstances have made a a major pessimist and in fact I tend to depress pessimists and make them look very optimistic. I am a human Eeyore LOL. I have tried to fit in but I am Alexithymia and I tend to not feel things or understand what I am supposed to be feeling. There are a few things that I do feel and I tend to hold onto them. One is sex and the other is anger. I also tend to have Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED) in which I can go from 0 to 100 anger wise and not realize it is happening, it causes me to black out so I try to avoid any and all confrontations. Getting back to the feeling thing, I have no idea if the church is true or if there is a god because I don’t get that infamous “warm feeling” that the HG is supposed to tell you things are true. I go by logic only and logic makes it hard to believe that there is some benevolent god out there who wants the best for me. I might go with there being some “Force” of some sort but it could give a rats butt about us or our lives. I kind of believe in some sort of afterlife since I have watched to many ghost shows that kind of give the impression that something continues to live on. As for religion I am an agnostic, kind of hoping that there is a god who won’t screw me over but I would not bet my life on it. LOL The church teaches that you have to believe in god and Jesus to be saved but I find it difficult to believe or feel anything along that line.

I was so busy trying to get this posted I forgot to add some things. I have Spinal Stenosis on my lower spinal column which means I am numb from my waist down and have to use a walker. Basically I am about one step away from being in a wheel chair. This causes ED and other problems so I cannot enjoy sex anymore. I talked to a Chiropractor and was told that I was so bad that nothing is going to help me. The VA Docs want to try surgery but I am nervous because the way my luck goes I WILL end up paralyzed. I also have been diagnosed with Major Depression. There are probably some other things that I have forgotten wrong with me. If god exists he owes me big time… LOL

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I think Jesus himself in His day appealed most to those who experienced those kinds of hardships and were hopeless – those who couldn’t live up to the demands the church (especially the Pharisees) of the time placed on them.

I agree that the story of Jesus offers some amazing theology that is a radical departure from what the majority of religions were serving up (follow the rules/rituals to appease/please the gods and gain their favor).

Gomez, I am sorry for the hand that you have been dealt in life. As DJ and I are discussing, sometimes religion can offer some hope when otherwise their would be none. For whatever it is worth, you have my permission to imagine whatever sort of God and heaven and eternal family relationships that you might need in order to gain some of that hope.

[Anonymous]

Thanks. I read a post somewhere, I forget which forum, but the poster said we would get whatever our idea of heaven would be, only better. I would be happy if I could just live the life I should have had here on earth without all the problems and health issues. I guess no one knows exactly what is going to happen when we die. Being the eternal Pessimist, with my luck it will be bad but if not I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Author]

Posts