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I’ve notice an interesting trend in the support threads, “half truths etc.” I suppose this makes sense because all of us, though struggles are not the same, feel mislead and a loss of belief to one degree or another. What have you done to make life more spiritual for you? I still tend to allow fear, guilt, and anger to clog my happiness. A few days ago I felt great, really great. I accepted that the church wasn’t true and it didn’t bother me one bit. Each day is different and I find it interesting how one day I can feel great and the next day feel like crap. Last night I didn’t sleep well as I had some dreams about many aspects of the church teachings. I have realized that the church has been in my life since birth, and will take a long time before I completely am able to maintain the peace I had the other day. JS said that Mormonism includes all truths. To me, that also means that all non-truths are excluded, regardless of who knows they are non-truths and when we discover their non-truthiness. So, it’s a pretty basic premise, but allows us to explore truth without getting too attached to a specific worldview. BTW, LOVE your new avatar – THAT makes me feel peaceful.
hawkgrrrl wrote:JS said that Mormonism includes all truths. To me, that also means that all non-truths are excluded, regardless of who knows they are non-truths and when we discover their non-truthiness.
Okay, I am probably going to sound like I’m back in High School but, that is so deep, like totally rockin!
😆 Just to make sure I understand your thoughts on this, do you think mormonism isn’t the belief in an institution but the idea/goal that we should reject any faults and truths in and out of the actual LDS church itself? I love this because it allows me to be a free thinker. This opens the door to so many possibilities and exceptions. I truly believe that the only way to know God is to think for myself, meaning sometimes I have to reject the status quo of anyone including the LDS. I hope for the day that the church will come out and expose the fact that our doctrine isn’t what it is said. To me this would propel the church to a “true church” status. Truth is not just found by the principles we’ve learned but by admitting that our dogma is not true. Truth is admitting that we have a lot to learn and that God is listening to all of us. (The truth is I really want to eat a hamburger tonight.)
Thanks on the Avatar. It reminds me how big and wonderful the universe is, and how special creation really is.
Quote:Just to make sure I understand your thoughts on this, do you think mormonism isn’t the belief in an institution but the idea/goal that we should reject any faults and truths in and out of the actual LDS church itself?
I do think that’s what JS meant, yes.
Quote:I love this because it allows me to be a free thinker. This opens the door to so many possibilities and exceptions. I truly believe that the only way to know God is to think for myself, meaning sometimes I have to reject the status quo of anyone including the LDS.
I think being a free thinker has to be the only way to achieve godhood – you can’t just follow your way there with no thoughts in your head. What kind of god would that be? One that can’t think? That is a sucky god. To me, the key is to not get too attached to the philosophies of men (including those in scripture, and including your own theories).
Quote:I hope for the day that the church will come out and expose the fact that our doctrine isn’t what it is said. To me this would propel the church to a “true church” status. Truth is not just found by the principles we’ve learned but by admitting that our dogma is not true.
Well, I wouldn’t hold your breath. Most people could not stomach this. As Jack Nicholson says in A Few Good Men: “You can’t handle the truth!”
“One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may.” Joseph Smith, Jr., Sermon preached in July 1843.
I highly recommend the entire Sunstone Article that examines this sermon in depth. It’s called “The Grand Fundamental Principles of Mormonism.” This was what Joseph Smith preached near the end of his “ministry.” Any member that wants to argue this openness and universalism in our theology can take it up with brother Joseph
Seriously, read the article. It describes a “Mormonism” that I love, of free thinkers and truth seekers. This was Joseph at his best IMO.
http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/issues/141/141-32-41.pdf Here is a quote from a prominent contemporary leader of the Church. So anyone who wants to poo poo JS and say something different about how it is today, you can quote President Eyring, who was obviously aware of Joseph’s views having stated the above thought almost verbatim:
“The gospel is the truth. All truth is part of the gospel regardless of how the truth has been learned.” — Henry Eyring
So this long answer to your statement about being a free thinker, well THAT IS EXACTLY what Joseph Smith was trying to teach people, to follow truth, to explore, to test and seek after these things, “let it come from whence it may.”
Quote:The truth shall make you free.
One of the great paradoxes of life is that it only is those who understand fundamental truths who truly are free – and, fwiw, the VAST majority of those who think they are free are not truly free.
It’s easy for those who are in Stage 4 thinking to blast those in Stage 3 as bound by dogma and tradition, but it’s MUCH harder for them to realize that many in Stage 3 are comfortable and fine there – and, even more paradoxically, that some have chosen that paradigm freely. They have looked at a choice between “security” and “danger” and chosen the path that works best for them. The security of Stage 3 is NOT inferior for many people; it literally can be the only option that is right for them.
One of the biggest aspects of reconciliation and peace is discovering that my path, though right for me, is NOT right for others – and extending that epiphany to those still on the path I no longer can walk without any trace of condescension or arrogance or superiority.
There are people in Stage 3 who are better people than I in MANY ways; there are people in Stage 4 who are better people than I in MANY ways; etc.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:The truth shall make you free.
One of the biggest aspects of reconciliation and peace is discovering that my path, though right for me, is NOT right for others – and extending that epiphany to those still on the path I no longer can walk without any trace of condescension or arrogance or superiority.
Great post, Ray! I particularly like this part (above), and it is indeed a challenge for me at times. Working at it though!
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