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As a matter of personal integrity and honor, I feel it prudent to have a conversation with my bishop. I feel that I need to express to that I am going through this “faith transition”. Not really sure that is really the way I should or want to describe what I am going through. But I expect to let him know the following: * I need time to heal;
* There is no sin involved;
* I am not addicted to anything;
* That there is no problem with my marriage;
* I am no longer an orthodox TBM;
* I still identify culturally/socially as a “Mormon;
* I just do not believe everything in the Church anymore.
* Here is my temple recommend…don’t think I’ll be needing this anytime soon;
* I am taking a sabbatical from all things Church “assigned”, so you might want to re-assign my HT families so someone visits them;
* Still willing to serve within the boundaries that I am comfortable;
Has anyone else done something similar? Is there anything that you would recommend that I do or not do?
I wouldn’t volunteer to hand over your TR unless you personally feel “unworthy” to have it. Doesn’t mean you need to use it. keep it…one day you may regret giving it up so easily.
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I am with cwald. Hang on to the recommend and require them to take it from you. It is always a crap shoot what will happen when you open up to your bishop. Recently I was backed into a corner and I had to pony up to the bishop about my lake of belief in religion in general. He was actually great about it after I told him I am not broken and I just want to be left alone. So we left on good terms and he seemed at least happy I was honest with him. Problem is I hear other stories where it goes badly so my best advise is to leave the door open, and let him know you are open to any new information that may change your mind.
I’m not a fan of these personal disclosures. I’m more of a “don’t ask, don’t tell” gal. I guess, what is the point of telling your bishop? It sounds like it’s to make you feel better and understood. It may or may not. That depends entirely on your bishop. Remember, your bishop is a regular Joe with a full time career who is trying to run a volunteer organization with almost no budget. Unless you want him to talk you out of it, I don’t see the point of this conversation. He’s unlikely to give you personal validation or approval if that is what you are seeking. Everything on your list can be just as easily done as said:
Quote:* I need time to heal;
* There is no sin involved;
* I am not addicted to anything;
* That there is no problem with my marriage;
So take the time you need. This is a private personal journey anyway.
Quote:* I am no longer an orthodox TBM;
* I still identify culturally/socially as a “Mormon;
For all you know, he fits this bill too. For all you know, lots of people do. No need to make a declaration. You haven’t sinned.
Quote:* I just do not believe everything in the Church anymore.
The difference between you and everyone else is that you know that; many of them believe things that differ from the church’s teaching and just don’t know or don’t believe things that are the church’s teachings and don’t realize it. We are all cafeteria Mormons. They can correlate the manuals, but not our minds.
Quote:* Here is my temple recommend…don’t think I’ll be needing this anytime soon;
It doesn’t sound to me like you are unworthy. Turning this in is just being dramatic, IMO. If you don’t want to use it, don’t use it. If you don’t want to renew, don’t.
Quote:* I am taking a sabbatical from all things Church “assigned”, so you might want to re-assign my HT families so someone visits them;
Why tell the bishop this? Just tell the EQP or HPGL. Or be like the other quorum members and just don’t do it!
Quote:* Still willing to serve within the boundaries that I am comfortable;
Again, no declaration needed. If you are asked to do something, you can decline and explain why then. If not, you don’t need to bother. Maybe he won’t ask you to do anything you don’t feel comfortable doing.
Personally, I think most people who want to do these declarations are really seeking to gratify their own feelings and need for validation or to cross the Rubicon. It often doesn’t go the way you hope, no matter how well you explain yourself. I’d get really clear on what you are trying to accomplish.
I could write a long response, but I think it’s . . . I’m searching for a charitable word . . . completely unnecessary to talk to the Bishop about a faith crisis and/or to use a Bishop as a dumping ground to satisfy some mistaken sense of honesty and integrity. I use that terminology intentionally. It’s a mistaken sense. If you’re worthy to attend the temple, that’s all he needs to know. Find someone else to use as a sounding board; don’t put the Bishop in a position where he has to ignore his role of Judge and Protector of the Flock OR where he gets pushed into acting in either role when it need not be. You’ll find I’m pretty blunt at times, and this is one time when I think you simply would be flat-out wrong to talk with the Bishop. You might get lucky and have it go very well – but, if not, you’ll have nobody to blame but yourself – and the tendency will be to blame the Bishop. It won’t be his fault; it will be yours.
You’ve been honest with yourself and the Lord — that’s enough. If you open up to the Bishop the following may happen: a) He may deny you opportunities you want eventually; you run the risk of narrowing your options for Church involvement in the future.
b) He may put you through some self-styled process to make you prove your faith again in the future if you ever want your TR again.
c) Everyone has faith issues of some kind. Even when I was a missionary I had trouble testifying of JS as a prophet and did so only by extrapolating from other beliefs. Why go making a big issue of yours?
Essentially, we have a highly scripted organization with a lot of rules which creates a strong culture that may sanction people who have doubt. By opening up about how you feel you expose yourself to all the strictness and put your fate in the Church in the hands of the Bishop. Who knows how he wil react.
Maintain control of your situation by working through your faith issues on your own or with other online. Deal with any collisions at Church as they come up or as you get asked to do things in the Church by way of callings, and even then, find diplomatic ways of sidestepping all faith issues.
There is no way on earth I would share any faith issues with local leadership for these reasons.
I think you become very subject to the personality of the bishop. Some biops are very tolerant and understanding, some are very strict and will judge you that your mind is darkened and lost. Because you don’t know how they will react to you, I echo the warning of others. It isn’t wise to offer the info voluntarily.
These thoughts and feelings and doubts are personal to you and the Lord. There is no sin to confess.
Seek friends to confide in, not church leaders.
Cuatemoc,I agree with everyone who has urged you to slow down and rethink dumping your issues on the bishop’s desk. It is just the nature of any executive officer (and a bishop us definitely that) to react to problems that need to be solved rather than people who need to be heard. An exceptional bishop does the latter but most bishops, like most everyone, just do their best which often ends up as trying to solve problems. You don’t want to be a problem.
Cuautemoc wrote:As a matter of personal integrity and honor, I feel it prudent to have a conversation with my bishop. I feel that I need to express to that I am going through this “faith transition”. Not really sure that is really the way I should or want to describe what I am going through. But I expect to let him know the following:”
We are all in a period of faith transition to some degree. It’s called maturing, learning, growing, questioning. Let your doubts and questions move through you. Analyze them with the same scrutiny and the skepticism with which you peer at the truth claims of the church (or whatever it is you question). And then be open to all possibilities. Also, personal integrity and honor isn’t the same as saying everything you think or feel, it just means living what you do believe – not being a hypocrite. What specifically are you living/doing that you feel is contrary to who you are? And why?* I need time to heal;
How do you expect the bishop to interpret this and facilitate your healing? Are you venting (not useful) or is there something here that is actionable?* There is no sin involved;
* I am not addicted to anything;
* That there is no problem with my marriage;
Not even worthy of a mention. When you proactively and preemptively defend yourself verbally, you push the other conversant into playing offense.* I am no longer an orthodox TBM;
* I still identify culturally/socially as a “Mormon;
* I just do not believe everything in the Church anymore.
Again, unless you think he is capable of resolving these issues, there’s no need to mention them. We are all on a journey and sometimes its circuitous. There’s no point trying to carve in stone what is as yet undefined. Besides, orthodoxy is not to goal. Orthopraxis is.* Here is my temple recommend…don’t think I’ll be needing this anytime soon;
Then put it in your wallet with the grocery store card you never remember to use and let it rest until you are ready to return. This again, puts the bishop on the offensive unnecessarily.* I am taking a sabbatical from all things Church “assigned”, so you might want to re-assign my HT families so someone visits them;
* Still willing to serve within the boundaries that I am comfortable;
If there is no problem with your specific home teaching families, why not continue to visit them? Love your neighbor isn’t a Mormon church invention and service is a great way to open yourself up to seeing the good in the church if you do want to stay lds. Remember what you wrote about personal honor and integrity? Is caring for and visiting others a violation of what you believe? Can you present an Ensign message, boiled down to its core gospel principle – take care of your body, be honest, be modest, serve, etc – in good faith?Has anyone else done something similar? Is there anything that you would recommend that I do or not do?
I sat down with my bishop on numerous occasions to discuss doubts and concerns however, we were good friends and he is a very humble man who cares about people with a pure love. I didn’t worry that my venting would be taken as anything else and I didn’t expect him to jump in and problem solve. I just needed the ear of a friend I trusted to listen without judgment. He provided that. I’ve known many bishops, some in my own family, with whom I would not have been as candid, judging discretion the better part.
It seems like one of the things you are wanting to ask for with the bishop is some space. Most of the advice you have received here is to not saying anything. Another thought would be to tone done what you say to him a little. Perhaps use the more generic phrase “I’m struggling with my testimony”. Part of that is I need a break right now – I am not sinning but I don’t want to be involved in home teaching for now – here’s how I am interested in being involved.
IMO, If your viewpoint has changed to the point that you don’t see the bishop as anyone other than a man giving service – e.g. he in no way represents Christ then you have no responsibility to tell him anything other than to let him know to what level you want to be involved.
This is why it is nice to have a forum like this! To help me see, that even though I may desire to be upfront and honest in my “dealings with my fellow man”, it may indeed cause me more aggravation and grief than expected. I enjoy the directness of everyone’s responses and it has directed me to reconsider and pause my intended course of action. Thank You!
Hey Cautemoc, Welcome to the forum! Everyone has already said this about meeting with the bish and I agree: Don’t do it dude!
Cuautemoc wrote:* Here is my temple recommend…don’t think I’ll be needing this anytime soon;
I would echo cwald’s and Cadence’s sentiments and don’t hand it over so easily. But I’ll take it one step further and say don’t give it to them at all, even if they demand it. Make them de-activate it. I say that because if my bish demanded it back because he deems me unworthy, I’d laugh at him because I feel very worthy to enter the temple. But I’m stubborn with this kind of thing. A big part of my faith struggle has been that I just don’t want people telling me what to do anymore.
Cuautemoc wrote:I feel that I need to express to that I am going through this “faith transition”. Not really sure that is really the way I should or want to describe what I am going through.
I hear ya there! I say ‘faith struggle’. ‘Faith crisis’ works for a lot of people too. ‘Transition’ makes me uncomfortable because I’m uncomfortable thinking about whatever I’m transitioning TO. At this point, no landing point seems like a good fit for me. But that’s the way these things go.
Cuautemoc wrote:* I am taking a sabbatical from all things Church “assigned”, so you might want to re-assign my HT families so someone visits them;
If you don’t want to do HT at all, that’s cool, but I would suggest maybe just checking up on your families next month. By late July, you may feel differently. You may be surprised how much difference a month or two of soul-searching makes. On the subject of HT, I’ve found that I’m waaay more willing to do it if it is on the family’s terms. I refuse to have two prayers and the FP message unless that’s what they really want. I don’t want my HT to do that. Honestly, it makes me a little uncomfortable – IN MY OWN HOME! So my HT come, we chat it up for a few minutes and then they leave, and it’s great, we’ve actually become friends, which I feel like is the whole point of the program.
But you can’t really take a sabbatical and still do HT, so follow your heart. It’s the biggest muscle you have
😆 I agree with what other’s have advised. Unless you want to become a project just serve where and how you can. It’s surprising how much of Christian living and service has disappearingly little to do with JS being a prophet or if the BoM is a historical work. This thread has really helped me as well. Especially what you said Ray. Those of you who have come to know me on this forum, understand that I have a hard time letting things go when I have my feathers ruffled. I become like a dog with a bone and don’t let things go. One of my greatest needs is to be understood, yet I am learning that everyone really doesn’t want to understand you. They just want to rescue you by telling you what to do. I have written my share of letters to bishops, family members, and friends who asked me what things I was having problems with in regards to the church and gospel. When I actually told them and asked my questions, they either got indignant with me or never replied back. It’s like Jack Nicolson, in ‘A few Good Men.” “You can’t handle the truth. Some times, I don’t handle the truth well either because it is just painful. So, how would most members answer if you asked them. “If the lds church was not the only true church on earth, would you want to know?”
You should do what you really feel you need to do … but as others have already pointed out — these types of “dump truck” confessions rarely go well. I call them that because people try to start with a general and vague declaration things have changed, but that always leads to questions about the causes and reasons, which leads into a dump truck load full of problems and controversies piled onto the poor BP. The problems have no tidy and neat answers. The BP plays the role of Judge in Israel. They are the judge, jury and executioner (not to be too morbid). They are often not equipped with the personality or time to be a counselor and personal adviser, let alone theologian and historian.
We are tempted to think this is a big act of honesty and personal integrity. I personally believe it is much more related to a desire for someone in authority to validate us. That will never happen, never … unless your BP is one of those rare skeptics who slipped through the cracks, or you attend the Cambridge 1st Ward near Harvard University where your GD teacher and Bishopric are perhaps famous LDS Scholars, and Richard Bushman is your Stake Patriarch.
😆 Unless it’s one of those two things, you’re most likely not going to have a positive experience.
Well this answers one question I had. I just moved into a new ward. My DH and I are both young and I figure we will both get snatched up for callings as soon as our records are transferred. Personally I don’t feel up to serving in the church right now. There may be a few callings I would do, but a majority I am just not interested in as I try to rebuild a foundation for myself. I wondered if I should be “honest”, but I thought all they need to know is, “Sorry that calling is not going to work for me at this time.” My faith crisis/transition/development is very personal. As many people have said talking to bishops about personal things typically leads to trouble which sadly I have experienced. Leaders do not need to know.
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