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I would like to see the church become more personal, and less about the centre and coreleation and more about the local stakes. I am thinking in terms of ability to set policy, funding, curriculum.
Plus all the other good stuff about open history, open finances, less authoritarian.
brit-exmo wrote:I would like to see the church become more personal, and less about the centre and coreleation and more about the local stakes.
I am thinking in terms of ability to set policy, funding, curriculum.
Plus all the other good stuff about open history, open finances, less authoritarian.
Less correlation would be a very good thing.
My favourite wards/branches have always been the one where the bishop/pres has pretty much thrown the handbook into his bottom drawer and run things in the members’ best interests.
And agree to on the history. I had to sit on my hands and bight my tongue today all through Sunday school with its inaccurate history of the Book of Mormon translation etc.
I have no problem with the Masonic signs and tokens. I was thinking more of things like women veiling their faces and other things I view as cultural artifacts. Fwiw, I think the top leadership is trying to push more things down to the local level, but that is a two-edged sword, as many here can attest. When you get a . . . difficult . . . local leader, you start wishing things weren’t pushed down so much to the local level.
brit-exmo wrote:I would like to see the church become more personal, and less about the centre and coreleation and more about the local stakes.
I am thinking in terms of ability to set policy, funding, curriculum.
Plus all the other good stuff about open history, open finances, less authoritarian.
I actually think this is in the works with projects like “I’m a Mormon” and using member suggestions through lds.org (the Grapevine project?) to gather input for manuals, Ensign articles, and photos to use in church publications. Also, they’ve got kids at the MTC fielding questions online. So there’s always been a “personal” side as well as a correlated side. While that’s a mixed bag – sometimes I WISH I could correlate what people think and say – it also shows more nuance and realism than the cookie cutter portrait of ourselves that gets out there.
One thing I watch to see what the culture of the church is is how we are portrayed in entertainment. Obviously, the BOM musical is one version that’s fairly recent. But it’s just showing teen boys, not Mormon adults in later life. About 10 or 15 years ago there was an episode of Frasier with a buffoonish Mormon guy as his agent (negotiating his contract, in a Boy Scout uniform). That wasn’t a very flattering portrayal. The guy was too doggone nice to be any good at his job. I suspect that since then, we’d see a more savvy, wealthy business person as something people (at least in business) see as a norm. There are so many successful Mormons who’ve been C-level execs since then. Several books and articles are trying to unlock the Mormon formula for success in business, especially in the last 5-10 years. Nowadays when people find out I’m Mormon at work (I’m a business executive), that adds to their favorable impression. They expect me to be successful, have integrity, and be clear-headed and smart. Maybe Hollywood would interpret business success as being ruthless, although that’s an unfair politicized stereotype IMO, but it will be interesting to see how perceptions of Mormons change in the next few years. Of course, Hollywood generally wants to make a statement or push social change in how groups are portrayed (e.g. mainstreaming so many gay married couples so that even the most provincial, conservative Americans “know” and trust gay people). They are very clever that way. Personally, I think Hollywood is a more effective reformer than just about anyone out there.
GBSmith wrote:mackay11 wrote:Old-Timer wrote:To be clearer, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see more changes. I can think of a few things that I see as completely cultural and that I believe have lost significance since the time when the endowment was created. If those changed or were eliminated, I would see it as a positive move.
Unless it’s in the parts you’ve promised to not mention… Which do you see as more relevant to a 19th C culture?
The masonic parts. Signs, tokens, etc..
I see these as being the “keys”. If one things of the door to heaven being filled with locks, then these are the keys to enter. Of course, I don’t take this completely literally, but it’s a good metaphor. Is heaven full of freemasons?
p.s. Yes correlation? Yes please.
From Devil’s Advocate: Quote:I would mostly like to see a kinder gentler church in my lifetime. To me what is worst about the Church is not really false ideas presented as the truth by themselves as much as all the heavy costs, tedious and unenjoyable meetings, guilt-trips, and overbearing expectations and judgmental attitudes of other members.
This, this, This!!!
Additionally, we are constantly saying prayers, closing talks/testimonies, and performing ordinances in the name of Christ. But I feel like we hardly ever really talk about Him. I need more Jesus in my Church of Jesus Christ, not more carnal commandments and outward performances. I want to talk about Christian discipleship, not earrings and tattoos. I wish we would confess our own weaknesses instead of confessing the weaknesses of others. I want some meat in my spiritual diet, not just endless recycled milk. Where’s the beef? The curriculum committee has four years to create new materials for each year of study. Let’s get busy!
I wish we would do more in our communities to help the poor and needy, and not just disaster relief. Let’s open our church kitchens and serve food to the destitute—the liability lawyers be d@#$%d!
I’d like to see the Church allow civil marriage ceremonies to precede temple sealings, so that families can truly be part of the moment of matrimony. It’s not that hard to do. A marriage directly before the sealing doesn’t cheapen the experience, and would go a long way to cultivating more good will.
These are just a sampling, and none of them are impossible tasks. I don’t know why we haven’t done these things already.
Don’t have a problem with multiple piercings but at least they can be removed easily unlike tattoos. SamBee wrote:I see these as being the “keys”. If one things of the door to heaven being filled with locks, then these are the keys to enter. Of course, I don’t take this completely literally, but it’s a good metaphor. Is heaven full of freemasons?
p.s. Yes correlation? Yes please.
I floated this idea with someone today. In their mind there would be a literal test at the gates to see if we knew the tokens. I tried to be respectful but told them that I found it bordering on ridiculous that there would be a queue at the gate to check we literally knew the right signs/tokens. Instead, I said that we’re taught it’s all symbolic, so having a symbol of something only I know, that I can’t pass on is another way of saying that God will give us an individual reckoning, that we’re individually responsible for our actions in life. I said this principle could be taught with different symbols, an still be a valid lesson, or even directly as words. People could come to this understanding without the temple and therefore reach that same understanding and commitment, while not needing the temple to do so.
I could see the stress in their face so backed off, but they later said it was a nice way of looking at it.
Dang reply lost! Tend to agree with yr comment. More later SamBee wrote:Dang reply lost! Tend to agree with yr comment. More later
I hate it when that happens
Tapatalk?
Close… yes I use a phone occasionally. more than one para is a prob for it!
Evil people will not enter heaven by tokens alone. we have to behave well too
we cannot run/barge in there IMHO that’s a lesson from the temple.
reminds me of Tibetan Book of the Dead a bit. That is reminscent of the veil.
SamBee wrote:Close… yes I use a phone occasionally.
more than one para is a prob for it!
Evil people will not enter heaven by tokens alone. we have to behave well too
we cannot run/barge in there IMHO that’s a lesson from the temple.
reminds me of Tibetan Book of the Dead a bit. That is reminscent of the veil.
My interest is piqued… what’s the Tibetan Book of the Dead link to the temple/veil? I really have so much more to learn about eastern philosophies and faiths.
In a nutshell it is a guide for the newly dead to get a decent reincarnation. It tells you what and what not to do, e.g. don’t go to the red light if you see one. Signs and tokens perhaps. Not well explained, sorry! Cool, I’ll look it up. I was trying to tell someone the other day that the covenants and principles we learn in temple are what counts, not the place that counts. I’d love to find that other faiths have this tradition of preparation to meet their maker.
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