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Hello everyone. Been reading your posts for the past month and I have got to say how much I love you all. Been a very rough time for me and I have been very anxious about where my soul is going. I have been feeling mass amounts of guilt and it has had me wondering if I am feeling guilt because I am denying what I know to be true. Or if the guilt is all caused by my own perception and not God’s. Anywho that is a separate topic. I wanted to start some discussion on some teachers I have found outside of the Church. I am going to name off a few and give a short description of each. Please feel free to share any teachers you have found in your journey for the truth.
Abraham Hicks – She mainly focuses on the Law of Attraction. She/He teaches that we are all one. We are made up of source energy and we are all vibrational beings. This is very interesting to me because we are all truly vibration. Everything is made up of energy vibrating at a different frequency. So each thought you think actually sends out a vibration to the Universe and you get back EXACTLY what you have been thinking. Ask and it is Given. This is soooooo true. If you go on to youtube you can listen to her material. Also her books are amazing. I shared Abraham with my TBM Mom and she was turned off to the whole thing because Abraham is channeled through a Woman named Ester Hicks. And of course as Mormons we are taught that inspiration through this method is of the Devil. However Abraham’s main message is that of love. Hard to see Satan as sporting that message
Neale Donald Walsch – I have just recently began reading his books “Conversations With God.” A lot of it would be considered blasphemy by the Church but I think it has some very deep statements. Here is a quote from one of the books “Your job on Earth, therefore, is not to learn (because you already know), but to remember Who You Are. And to remember who everyone else is.” HOW DEEP IS THAT! There are a lot of other thought provoking quotes from these books. Again I would not suggest accepting these books as gospel either.
A Course on Miracles – This is another books that was done by automatic reading. Have only glanced at it.
Anyways the reason I started this topic is to get peoples opinions on Revelation outside of the Church. One of my biggest fears with staying with the Church is that I will have to close my mind off again. And I know I cannot do that. And so I have been going through a very very dark time. I feel like I am rebelling against God. But deep down my Soul knows that no God would punish one for looking at the truth. I believe we create our own reality with our thoughts. I think that people in the Church believe that the Lord puts challenges into our lives and so does Satan. I don’t agree with this. I believe we were sent here as creators to create our own reality. I think God created our physical World with Laws. Why would he be sitting there micromanaging our lives? This is why Universal Laws exist. And I think it is very important for us as Human beings to learn the Laws of the Universe and to take charge of our realities.
We can use the Church as a step up or we can use it as a prison of the mind. How many TBM’s only have spiritual books from their paradigm? How can we expand as human beings if we do not learn expansive knowledge. How much damage are we doing to ourselves by claiming a monopoly on the truth? Just some questions to ask yourself.
Here’s my half cent. Some guilt is deserved, but maybe you shouldn’t run around feeling so guilty. Who’s perfect? We’re all guilty and no one is really more guilty than another. Give it up! You’re wasting time sitting there feeling guilty and not moving forward. Having problems approaching God in prayer because you’re feeling guilty? So do I. But we’re all guilty and God expects us to come to Him in prayer anyway. He is full of love and can overlook our guilty feelings. You asked if you are creating your own guilt? Maybe. Probably. Remember, we’re all guilty, even a GA. Second half cent. I believe that God lets us, and maybe even enjoys us reading up and coming to our own conclusions about life, eternities, spirituality and so forth. It’s our right to search out truth wherever it is, and it’s everywhere. To assume that revelation only comes inside the Mormon church is just an assumption. The Spirit of God is available to all His children. What does fall under the jurisdiction of the Mormon church is the right to presidency through the Priesthood. Revelation for the church from Presiding officials to govern the church, the Kingdom of God on Earth. I have seen spiritual healing work in my own family’s life. It helped for the better. Is it from God or the Devil? Well, it wasn’t Priesthood so it weirded some of us out, but…
I don’t know what else to say
One of the central principles of what I call “pure Mormonism” is that God gives revelation regardless of religion or denominational affiliation. It’s the “bring it with you” concept – that if someone understands truth in a different way (or even an unknown truth to the Church at large), it’s accepted simply because it’s truth. Hence, “seek learning out of the best books”, “even by study and also by faith”, etc. Truth is all around us, if we only have eyes to see it and hearts to understand. As organizations grow, they tend to minimize this, however. There tends to be an idea that we now have it all – even if that isn’t supported (and even if it is rejected) in our canonized scriptures. It’s just natural calcification, and it just makes change harder and slower than when the organization was smaller. It’s a security trade-off for the free-wheeling discovery mode of the early time. It just is what it is.
The last books of the small plates of Nephi are interesting in this regard. Space on the plates was running out, and, paraphrasing the words of one of the writers, “It’s all been said. I don’t know anything new. I’m just signing this to show that I took my duty seriously.”
Thanks for the sources, Matthew. I really enjoyed Conversations With God Book 1 by Donald Walsh. I have since done the same thing and found it very useful.
I wasn’t familiar with Abraham Hicks. I may check that out.
You may appreciate Eckhart Tolle’s Youtube videos or his A New Earth or his The Power of Now. It’s a challenging look at the dysfunction inside us called the Ego (aka the evil spirit of which hath been spoken by our fathers).
You may also appreciate the Bhagavad Gita (Edwin Arnold translation) and the Tao Te Ching (Stephen Mitchell version is loose, but accessible). Both are pretty short.
A Course In Miracles… Conversations With God… Abraham Hicks… all soooo excellent, and I have read/studied them all! (as well as Eckhart Tolle – also excellent and inspired) I have also studied the the Tao, Buddism, the Quaran, etc.. Truth and enlightenment can be found in so many places outside the church (as well as inside… but I am having a harder time with this lately) I do however have to be careful who I share it with, many in the church are of course extremely non receptive. I am thrilled that you have found these wonderful resources, and wish you all the best on this journey of truth that we are all on!
MatthewHobbs wrote:Been a very rough time for me and I have been very anxious about where my soul is going. I have been feeling mass amounts of guilt and it has had me wondering if I am feeling guilt because I am denying what I know to be true.
Ah the guilt! Yes we all know about that. And lets not forget fear. I think much of the church was built on fear tactics. (I think I will start a new thread about fear tactics) I still have a lot of lingering guilt that what if everything I was raised to believe about the church is 100% true. What if we are the ONLY true church. My search for for truth would definitely put me in the apostate category by many… am I going to hell? Fortunately the more I learn and grow, the more secure I am feeling about everything. I still have a ways to go however.
Thanks for sharing your list. Many of us find great nourishment outside. In fact, I know that my personal exploration of other sources is probably one of the key things in my life that KEPT me in the Church when the storm of faith crisis hit. Having many sources and angles to examine the divine made it less critical when I had to adjust my expectations of a few of them — there were still plenty of other personal anchors in my life. As strange as this might sound, Islam and the Sufi sect in particular have been very nourishing to me lately. I’ve been reading a lot of poetry, listening to music, and reading both history and fiction revolving around that. Something about the raw and unfiltered mystical experience of God and love they seek,
thathas been speaking to me. A few years ago, I also went through a long phase of studying Sacred Geometry and stuff like that, fundamental characteristics of the universe that we encounter around us — study the creation to know the mind of the creator.
I really dig other religions. I feel like I learn so much more about myself and my own religion by seeing how others approach the deeply rooted archetypes and urges we have to make meaning in the world.
I had strong revelation before I joined the Church — so I know it exists outside of our religion. I think there are times when the rules, the expectations, the made-up-reasons-to-get-you-to-do-something you hear at Church that take root in our religion can be harmful to our growth. Also, the plodding that Church membership requires can make it hard to continue lapping up spirituality. For example, I’m so tired of moving, home teaching to some extent, the sitting through meetings out of duty, it besmirches the whole religion. Last week they wanted us to take turns showing up at the Chapel at 5:45 am to just sit there so there’ a priesthood leader in the building for Seminary. Stuff like that. I chose not to as I’m fragile right now.
It makes me turn away from spirituality and God sometimes — I start seeking happiness and joy elsewhere.
I find Ghandi enlightening at times. I do find the Book of Mormon very enlightening in spots, and certain pithy parts of the Doctrine and Covenants. I find the writings of Stephen R Covey enlightening at times. Beyond Ghandi I’ve ventured nowhere outside of our religion; I should take a look.
Regarding Conversations with God — is that related to the movie of the same title? I suggest anyone interested in exploring truth consider watching the movie. It’s a story about somemone whose life is going well, and then gets in a car accident. His life goes down the tubes and he ends up homeless. During this homeless period he gets enlightenment, and then his journey continues from there (no spoilers here). I found it to be a very enlightening and moving movie. Not to be missed….
By the way, here’s an example of one person’s tunnel vision on the Bible, which sounds like it denied them ANY access to the truths in the movie. This is a review on the movie I’m talking about, posted on Amazon:
Quote:2 of 9 people found the following review helpful:
Conservative Christians Viewpoint, November 2, 2008
By KLD (Ohio) – See all my reviews
This review is from: Conversations With God (DVD)
I was surprized looking through all the other reviews that there was not one review written from a christian (Bible believing) viewpoint. I watched this video, and listened carfully to the conversations he had with God. Although at times the conversations appear to be in-line with what you would read in the Bible (the most read book of all time), much of the conversation was in direct opposition to the ideas and theology given in the Bible. I did enjoy the story line of someone overcoming adversity. I wanted to warn people out there that if you are a Bible believing Christian, you may be offended by this movie because it does not align with the Bible on some points; it comes across as what I would term new-age. I would suggest that if you want to have your own personal ‘conversation with God’, get yourself a copy of the bible – any version – and read it.
Matthew You are speaking my language BOOKS! Reading great books that speak resonate with me has always been a spiritual practice for me. So many of these books have had a serious positive affect in my life. I love all the books that have mentioned so far, I also like Paulo Coelho quick easy reads/fables.
I found that entering and tagging all the books I have read on goodreads, shelfari and amazon has helped me find many others books very specific to my profile. Netflix also has a great documentary section and makes great recommendations if you take the time to set up a profile of your top 40+ movies.
I actually started a bookclub with a couple other like minded friends and it really filled a void in my life that needed to be filled. I was ravenous for books written by women about women so perhaps that isnt your cup of tea but I needed some spirituality told through a womens voice. I also have loved studying aspects of others religions, the sciences and psychology. The Myers Briggs Personality Assessment was an interesting test to take and read about as well.
“Seek ye out of the best books” puts NO limitations on where we will find those books. Period. Full Stop. Thank you for your responses. It helps a lot to ask these questions and have them answered by different view points. Ray said:
Quote:One of the central principles of what I call “pure Mormonism” is that God gives revelation regardless of religion or denominational affiliation. It’s the “bring it with you” concept – that if someone understands truth in a different way (or even an unknown truth to the Church at large), it’s accepted simply because it’s truth. Hence, “seek learning out of the best books”, “even by study and also by faith”, etc. Truth is all around us, if we only have eyes to see it and hearts to understand.
Very good point. I just think differently than most people. I guess I get pure Mormonism mixed up with the Mormon cultural views. I just hope God will accept me for who I am. Sometimes I wish I could just be happy with the TBM mind-set but I know that is not going to make me happy. TBM’s just seem SOOOO sure of themselves that it scares me for being different sometimes. The more a move through life the only sure thing I know is that I know very little at all.. I guess the key is trying to be comfortable with not knowing?
Flowerdrops said:
Quote:Ah the guilt! Yes we all know about that. And lets not forget fear. I think much of the church was built on fear tactics. (I think I will start a new thread about fear tactics) I still have a lot of lingering guilt that what if everything I was raised to believe about the church is 100% true. What if we are the ONLY true church. My search for for truth would definitely put me in the apostate category by many… am I going to hell?
I hear you. I think that fear is a very powerful tool. I have this CRAZY insecurity that if I let go of my fear that I might be letting go of my beliefs. And what if the beliefs I have right now are true? It sounds crazy even typing it out and reading it over. Then again I guess that is what FEAR is. It almost is always irrational.. You are not going to hell my friend! I look forward to reading your topic on fear when you create it
Brian Johnston said:
Quote:A few years ago, I also went through a long phase of studying Sacred Geometry and stuff like that, fundamental characteristics of the universe that we encounter around us — study the creation to know the mind of the creator.
Very interesting you bring this up. I have been recommended by a few people to look further into sacred geometry. It is very mind blowing to understand how complex our creation really is. Quantum physics is also very interesting to look into. With science we are now able to prove that nothing is really solid. It is all an illusion. We are ALL made up of the same stuff. This helps me gain a bigger understanding into the fact that we are all one. Have you seen the movie “What the bleep do we know?”
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