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Roy wrote:
Sometimes it really seems like there is minimal effort ensure a quality meeting and rather that we are all just dutifully killing time until the meeting ends.
Guilty.
Sometimes when it was my turn to teach there were only about 2 or 3 points I wanted to make but it wasn’t enough to fill the entire time. Those where the Sundays where I was glad the announcements went on for 20 minutes. There were also Sundays where I got frustrated because I had prepared and there wasn’t nearly enough time to develop the lesson in the way I had planned because of over-long announcements or a SM speaker that went on for 30 minutes.
I suppose that’s life. How we cope when the stars don’t align.
P.S. I really liked the way you interpreted the sister’s talk. It’s a reminder that people are telling their story framed by what they know. Maybe a talk or lesson only starts to cause distress when we try to grade them against how we view things and start to measure them against our stories.
Excellent talks in sacrament meeting – including a woman who had been “any parents’ worst nightmare” as a teenager, with just enough detail about her friends’ reaction when she hit rock bottom and decided to change her life to believe her description was accurate. It was a wonderful story of repentance, love, and grace. I asked her and her husband for copies of their talks to share here. Sunday School was good. We have some people on Gospel Essentials who contribute excellent comments. One person mentioned a friend who recently came out as gay and the question some members asked about what to do. She emphasized that we need to love people and accept them as they are.
The third hour was boring: a lesson on family history research. Good people; fine topic for the third hour; boring.
Katzpur, thanks for sharing. I don’t think you need to be put in your place or anything like that. I think people sharing stories like that are revealing to them how much they value trying to be so diligent in honoring and respecting the prophets. To them, they include it in their talks as a way to emphasize how hard they try to do even little things. And I know many will relate those stories as good examples of trying to admire those leaders God calls. So, it is about them, it is an expression of what is faithful to them. For some of us, they aren’t inspirational. In fact, for some of us, they are triggers. So much control or conformity even about buttons is just another example of mindless leader worship.
I don’t think you are wrong to feel how you do. It tells you something about yourself and how you connect to god, and it is not through those stories. That’s perfectly normal, I think. I doubt you were the only one to think it in the congregation.
But I do think there are some others that like those stories. I guess we just leave it to them and let them have their faith promoting time.
I think each week there are things that trigger me or bug me at CHurch. I rarely have a “no bug” week.
And that is partly why I continue to go. I try to find ways to love others and find goodness amid the things that bug me. I practice hard at it, and tell myself others need their thing too.
Some weeks I’m better at it than others. But I keep trying.
Currently, ongoing talks and references to divorce being so prevalent and a “virus” in our ward are the current triggers for me. Instead of people talking about gospel principles and loving relationships, they seem to just be focused on the evils of the world and how people just give up on marriage instead of trying harder to endure pain and suffering. It’s not uplifting for me to hear those things when I know the couples going through hard times need support and love, not lectures on how they are not trying hard enough by members of the ward who have healthy relationships and don’t know what it is like to be in bad situations.
People often mean well at church. But what they say that hurts others clearly show how we are all working out our salvation. We need to keep working on love. That includes me and how I treat others when their stories seem off the mark and shallow, like 3 buttons on a suit.
Weekly church is an exercise for me in weekly love and patience and humility. I’m often not doing good enough at it. But I try.
Attended a Ward Council today. I was surprised to find out Stake SS President there, training the Ward Council on the very thing I was there to talk about. It seemed like over-reaching. I guess I have to be compassionate. I was that way, at one time — sticking myself too far into other people’s stewardship in the name of getting things done. Our Bishop cut him off at one point and turned the conversation over to me. I got advice from the Ward Council about what to put on the agenda for the Teacher’s Council meetings. Spent the middle of the second and third hour documenting size and suitability of vacant rooms since the Teachers Council meets in a room that is unsuitable for a variety of teaching methodologies. Got some really appreciative kudos from the Ward council about the facilitation I’ve been doing, which was nice.
Got shushed at the end of Sacrament meeting though. That sort of ticked me off…the Primary President asked all the adults to leave the chapel so she could do some primary singing work. I got up to leave but then an elderly gentleman I used to home teach cornered me at my seat. Given his wobbliness, and the fact that he sat down next time, I stayed there. We talked quietly, and then someone else joined us, and we got noiser, I guess. Primary President’s councilor gave us a nasty Shush!!!!!!! and when I looked up, looked away in a kind of arrogant and uncivil way. I know the woman, and she used to be a good friend. She’s turned kind of haughty lately…for some reason it got my goat.
It had me thinking about the Activity cycle, a parody of the prosperity cycle we learn about in the BOM — humility – prosperity – wickedness – suffering and then the cycle repeats. In the activity cycle it goes like this:
Inactivity — Niceness from Ward members — activity — rudeness & taking for granted, leading to the cycle repeating itself at inactivity.
Just kidding, kind of, but I do notice that everyone is nice to you when you come out of less activity. They don’t push you too much, generally agree to your requests, are nice. They go out of their way to welcome you or talk to you. Then when you are active they seem to take you for granted, tend not to cooperate as easily, and may even be unkind and uncivil. Things they would never do to someone coming out of less activity…
Anyway, am enjoying the teacher council thing I’ve been asked to do. I feel as though I am counter-acting the incredible boredom I feel when I am there. It puts pressure on me to listen in the classes I am attending because I am now facilitating excellence among the teachers. I got caught with my pants down in one meeting when I was on Wikipedia and the teacher called on me to read a scripture. My own techniques used on me to get me paying attention!!!
HP group was interesting. The teacher asked a lot of questions, and there were very interesting stories from the class. The guy was in our last teacher’s council meeting and seemed to have taken the advice to talk less and and let the class talk more. I wish I had the time to write out a couple stories people told about talking about being a Mormon at work. I wasn’t bored at all…
Best and worst of Fast Sunday today, at two wards, since I was trying to see as many people I knew as possible from my past: I was visiting my old ward in the Boston area, and all but one of the testimonies in both wards were wonderful. There was a great spirit, until . . . the testimony that was horrible, and I am not exaggerating. He actually referenced, as part of the signs of the times, “Obama and Hillary trying to kill Supreme Court judges” – and other things I tried to ignore. At least nearly everyone else had their heads buried in their hands and obviously were resigned to hearing from the crazy cousin. (Comparatively, it is a moderate ward, and it helped to know that.)
Sunday School in the first ward was taught by a woman I admire greatly whom I have known online for at least a decade but had not met in person. The lesson was about the Sons of Helaman – and it was fascinating, stimulating, instructive, and brilliantly done.
HPG was stereotypically Mormon: a group of older men sitting around sharing stories. It was cozy and comforting.
F&TM was a bit better than average in our ward. For the most part people actually bore testimony. I actually think it may have had something to do with the absence of the older couple in our ward who always (sometimes literally) race to be first and go on long diatribes that rarely include actual testimony. Once the bishop had to ask the brother to sit down because he had already gone on for 20 minutes. Anyway, I do believe the first one or two can set the tone of the meeting and since there were a different two, the testimonies were short, to the point, and “testimony” centered. I skipped SS as usual, but we had a good discussion in HPG about why bad things happen to good people. While not exactly as “extreme” as my more Deist view, the group did reach consensus that God’s plan doesn’t necessarily include minute details for each individual and that God set things up well and lets them go with the expectation we’ll learn from things that occur naturally and/or as the result of our choices and decisions. We also talked about God not interfering with agency and His more intervention often being with groups as opposed to individuals (for example Israel). We did discuss that God can and does intervene otherwise sometimes, though. A (frequent) visitor brought up some stuff from Givens and Brad Wilcox. It was one of the better open discussion kinds of lessons I have been to recently.
We have a very interesting & spiritual Sacrament meeting today. The youth speaker talked about God expects us to ask questions. And, we shouldn’t be afraid to ask questions about the gospel. (very mature)
The 2nd speaker was from Mexico. She is the wife to head of the Mexican Consulate Office in our city. They just moved into the ward. She is a member. I’m not sure about her husband.
(It was hard to understand)
The 3rd speaker was a returned Missionary. He said his goal on his Mission was to be the Michael Jordan of Missionaries & work as hard as he did. He is black & served in Alabama.
He said it was the spiritual highlight of his life to date. He gave some good examples why it was spiritual for him. The Bishop got up after & said that he can expect even more
spiritual experiences in the future as he worked for them. He had many friends & family in the congregation.
The PH lesson was “Marriage An Eternal Partnership”. (I groaned when I read the title.)
I was asked to read part of the lesson that read as follows:
Quote:No blessing will be denied to worthy individuals who are not married. This is the church of JC, not the church of marrieds or singles or any other group or individual. The gospel we preach is the gospel of JC, which encompasses all the saving ordinances and covenants necessary to save and exalt every individual who is willing to accept Christ and keep the commandments that he and our Father in Heaven have given. No blessing, including that of eternal marriage and an eternal family, will be denied to any worthy individual.Even beyond this mortal life.
(Interesting discussion)
I had a real good experience yesterday. Church was engaging and I found something to inspire me in each of the three hours. There were a few roach in the ice cream moments but they were overshadowed by many good things that were said. Overall a very positive experience. During SM one of the talks was about Jesus. SS was about the prosperity gospel (but a few stray comments saved it). When PH started to get a little too manual-centric someone asked a question and people spent the rest of the class answering.
I already mentioned Sunday School but I forgot about a thought I had. Luckily I took a note. Heleman 1:9-12 wrote:Now when those people who were desirous that he should be their governor saw that he was condemned unto death, therefore they were angry, and behold, they sent forth one Kishkumen, even to the judgment-seat of Pahoran, and murdered Pahoran as he sat upon the judgment-seat.
And he was pursued by the servants of Pahoran; but behold, so speedy was the flight of Kishkumen that no man could overtake him.
And he went unto those that sent him, and they all entered into a covenant, yea, swearing by their everlasting Maker, that they would tell no man that Kishkumen had murdered Pahoran.
Therefore, Kishkumen was not known among the people of Nephi, for he was in disguise at the time that he murdered Pahoran. And Kishkumen and his band, who had covenanted with him, did mingle themselves among the people, in a manner that they all could not be found; but as many as were found were condemned unto death.
Speedy getaway? No man could overtake him? Disguise? I think I’ve figured out who this Kishkumen chap was:
[img]https://ap2hyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/JP-Flash-590×344.jpg [/img] Bazinga!
nibbler wrote:There were a few roach in the ice cream moments
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 I must use that phrase somewhere…
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: SilentDawning wrote:nibbler wrote:There were a few roach in the ice cream moments
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 I must use that phrase somewhere…
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I guess that is different than the analogy of dog poop in the brownies. The poop in the brownies may be more disgusting but it is less noticeable than the stark roach in the ice cream.And if anybody isn’t aware of the poop in the brownies object lesson … Well I was about to describe it when I decided to ask Mr. google and he delivered.
http://www.lds-yw.com/story_Special_Brownies.pdfhttp://www.lds-yw.com/story_Special_Brownies.pdf” class=”bbcode_url”> And then people are surprised when members get a black and white mentality and leave the church when they find out they were being feed good things with a bit of “poop” (with difficulty I somehow managed not to use another 4 letter descriptive of excrement).
Mine is from a Mormonad: LookingHard, you don’t have to supply an image for your analogy if you don’t want to.
LookingHard wrote:And then people are surprised when members get a black and white mentality and leave the church when they find out they were being feed good things with a bit of “poop”.
My thoughts exactly. We are taught to accept only what is true, pure, and virtuous and that Satan operates by mixing the mostly true with a tiny bit of error. Then some of us later discover that the church and it’s doctrines have shifted and taken detours throughout history.
ahhh…yes…the hyperbole and exaggeration for effect that makes church so fun. :angel: My analogy to my kids in FHE was an oreo blizzard from DQ. Then squeezed some yellow mustard on top. Yep…that seems to ruin it (although my son did try it and quickly spit it out).
The simple solution was to scoop out the mustard from the top, and all enjoy the rest of it that wasn’t all ruined because of a little bad part.
There are limits…poop brownies…ick. I don’t know how you scoop that out.
Maybe that is part of the object lesson. If some things can’t be scooped out…better to throw it all out. THere are some things like that in life…but not all things. If I just have a little mustard and you give me the story of the poop brownies…well…it doesn’t apply to my oreo blizzard with mustard…that analogy needs to be more accurate for me, and it would be a waste to misapply the lesson.
I’m glad my church experience is more like mustard on top. I can pick and choose the parts I eat and avoid. I don’t think my church experience is roaches and poop. It’s not that bad. And neither is the music and movies I’m watching.
As someone said on this board a long time ago…
Quote:Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in the fruit salad.
So…all the hyperbole and analogies that are thrown out to try to make a point still require the wisdom to apply them properly to my life…or I could miss out on a lotta good stuff in life unnecessarily.
I am finding in my ward a good group of people that appreciate the balanced and wise approach to our lessons in the ward, not the competition for more zealous exact obedience. There is a bit of common sense in our ward that I enjoyed in our lessons yesterday.
Heber13 wrote:My analogy to my kids in FHE was an oreo blizzard from DQ. Then squeezed some yellow mustard on top. Yep…that seems to ruin it (although my son did try it and quickly spit it out).
The simple solution was to scoop out the mustard from the top, and all enjoy the rest of it that wasn’t all ruined because of a little bad part.
Hey wait – wouldn’t that be called “cafeteria Mormonism”?:lolno:
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