Room For Faith

[Anonymous]

Hi. Hey there. How’s it going.

Not sure how to start this, haha.

You can call me Orual, I’m a 24 year old female RM, and I’d like to stay LDS.

I don’t know how to keep this concise…..basically, I need help. I need help battling what seems like an insurmountable amount of reasons to not stay LDS, with few reasons to stay except one…..I want to stay, because I like it. Because my life is better with it in it.

But I can’t live something if it’s just pretending. Who could live like that, knowing that they are living a lie? I don’t need proof that it’s true, I just need it to not be proved absolutely false. I just need there to be room for faith.

On my good days, leaving the church threatens my lifestyle. On my worst days, as someone with a history of extreme depression, losing my faith has threatened my life. I know that this post is scattered and so far unspecific, but I just need to act and get things out of my head, even if they aren’t quite coherent yet. I’ll add specific concerns as we go I guess. So, hi there Community. Please, help me stay.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I want to stay, because I like it. Because my life is better with it in it.

That is the best reason to stay with anything or anyone.

I hope you have good help with your depression – counseling, a listening ear, medication, coping mechanisms, whatever you need.

[Anonymous]

Welcome.

Some days I can’t give you a reason for why I want to stay LDS. Other days I can’t give you a reason for why I want to leave. Seems to fit nicely into the larger picture of what I’ve experienced thus far in life.

I certainly empathize with what you’re saying. I get what you said about putting up a façade. I did that for years and years and they were painful years. I believe that just posting on stay LDS and helping us get to know you chips away at that façade, you’ve got a group of people to be more genuine with.

I also know the depression. I was depressed when I had a more orthodox belief system and a faith crisis intensified that depression, but as it turns out it was only intensified for a moment. Things truly got better with time. I hesitate to say what made the difference, in part I’m still figuring it out and in part easing out of the depression was probably tailored to my specific situation. Each of us is unique but we all share our humanity. Hang in there. Glad to have you.

[Anonymous]

Orual, welcome to this site. Many of us understand what you are going through.

Keep coming back & contribute when you can. We want to hear more about you &

your situation. There is safety in being able to discuss our issues about the gospel &

life in general & do it anonymously.

[Anonymous]

First of all, I would second what has been said by Ray and Nibbler about the depression. My wife spent three months in an in-patient facility due to major depression and suicidal thoughts, so I know that it’s not something to be taken lightly. You said that losing your faith has threatened your life. If you are truly feeling like your life doesn’t have meaning without your faith, please get somebody to talk to immediately! If you’re talking about clinical depression, please take it seriously.

Okay, end of lecture.

Orual, I’m new to this site as well, but I can truly say that it is an excellent place to share what you’re going through. In the few days that I’ve been posting, I’ve found nothing but supportive people here. Having been raised LDS, I’ve found that most staunch Mormons see things as being black or white. On this site, you’ll find 1,000 different shades of gray. And I mean that in a very good way. Very few things are all black or all white. It’s comforting to find a place where you can share your perspective, and even if people don’t agree with it 100%, they’re still supportive and willing to share their own perspective. But nobody is going to argue with you or try to force you to see things their way.

I look forward to getting to know more about your story, and I’m certain that your perspective will bring even more value to all of us. We all have varying degrees of faith/hope. I personally have lost a lot of faith in specific aspects of the ‘church,’ but I’ve been able to maintain my basic testimony of Jesus Christ and things that He taught while He was on the Earth. I’m just another one of those shades of gray. Look for the things you can hold onto.

Welcome!

[Anonymous]

Congradulations on serving a mission. You know one odd thing that troubled me when I was seriously contemplating leaving the church? It was that my kids would be less likely to go on a mission. I look back and I have to laugh at that a bit. My mission helped me in so many ways it is something that I want my kids to experience. Now I will be telling them, “If you get a mission president that seems to be numbers oriented – do work hard on your mission, but don’t be motivated by stats.”

Ditto on getting the medical help you need (including talk therapy) for your depression. Life will just be hard in or out of the church. Given that you have depression issues (welcome to the club) I suggest if you start feeling guilty and down that unless you are breaking some clear commandment that is talked about in the temple recommend questions, try your best to ignore that and ask, “does this feel like the great 2 commandments Jesus gave to love God and love others?” If you get arm twisting to attend the temple more, signup for more whatever – just realize it isn’t for you nor required.

Now as far as staying, I am typical in that during the midst of my faith crisis (“FC” in site lingo) I was in a panic over cognitive dissonance. After studying more I have found a place that I might very well be able to stay and still have faith. Bill Real just had a great episode on his podcast talking about how he has one basket of reasons to stay and one basket of reasons to leave. Some days one is heavier than the other. If you are feeling down, I don’t suggest it as he talks about (more than usual) some of the things that bother him so we do realize he is still mortal Which is a suggestion I would have. If you dive in and read every negative slanted thing towards the church or even every honest exmormon description of how they left the church all at one time, it is going to be hard not to walk away. I am not going to say stay away from anything, but I have found it better to take time and digest things a bit. I occasionally listen to some really negative stuff – just so I know some of what is out there when others come to me. I have found for my mental health that pacing it out a bit is better for my mental health.

[Anonymous]

Welcome. As has been said, many of us here can relate to your feelings. I spent 10 years not going to church because I felt I couldn’t be authentic. It takes work (and some tongue biting) but it is possible to be active and involved, still be true to yourself, and not believe everything. Your reason for staying is as good as any, and in reality it is the reason many of us stay. Honestly I can’t say I have a lot of faith, but I do have some belief and I do have some desire to believe (think Alma). The belief I have is working for me at the moment – and it’s not really much. My standard advice: take it slow, don’t dump all at once, and focus on what you do believe.

Please come back and share more of your story and your feelings. It is safe here.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Orual!

We have all been there! It is not an easy process, there will be ups and downs, but it will get better. Number one, as Dark Jedi would say – “Take it slow. Don’t dump everything at once. Find what is good that you can believe in and have faith in.”

For myself, it is still ups and downs. However, there is still good in the LDS Church and if you can find some people in your area who feel the same as you that can really make things a lot easier. Coming here has also been a God send, as I came to know I was not the only one struggling with doubts.

Reach out as needed, we are here to listen.

[Anonymous]

Looks like DJ beat me to it, literally by 30 seconds.

🙂

[Anonymous]

Great post — the lack of detail isn’t an issue here…I have a possible approach for you to consider.

Be agnostic about it. Meaning, you don’t completely believe, or disbelieve the gospel/church/lds experience. You simply choose not to make a commitment either way in your belief system on those bothersome issues. Have faith in those issues you can.

You find happiness in the parts you like, whatever they are. And then, you use tact, intelligence, creative use of language, creativity in general, and self-monitoring to make sure you don’t upset anyone or bring down hardship on yourself due to your unorthodoxy.

You will encounter situations you are not sure to handle — post them here so people can share their thoughts — you will likely come out with creative ways of handling situations (like being asked to take on a calling that forces you to teach doctrine you aren’t sure you believe), or do something totally inauthentic. There are ways out of it.. Ways that keep your relationship with the church intact, as well as your inner authenticity.

And by the way, I don’t think overt authenticity is always wise. In fact, it’s a luxury we often don’t have in many other situations. Why expect to have it in the church? Can you tell your spouse she or he is fat and has grown unattractive to you??? No, not without creating a story that will go down in history for ever. Can you tell your boss he’s the most ineffective leader you’ve ever worked with, unethical, uninspiring, and responsible for more people on meds in the workplace than any leader you’ve ever worked with? Not without getting fired.

I think too much value is placed on authenticity. It really is a luxury we can’t always afford, and it can often lead to an insensitive character. Being discreet, respectful of others’ beliefs, contributing on your own terms, supporting others in their beliefs — those are worthy attributes, and sometimes, they preclude authenticity.

We once brainstormed how to be involved in non-doctrinal ways, and the list was huge….you can be involved yet not fully believing…there is a lot of opportunity.

http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6009&p=82383&hilit=non+doctrinal#p82383

[Anonymous]

Orual wrote:

I just need there to be room for faith.

Hi. Thanks for posting and sharing your feelings. There is room for faith…in fact…lots of room for seeing what faith really means.

Go slow. Take a deep breath. Realize that you are not the only one to have these thoughts and feelings. And some of the smartest people on the planet think through these things, and there is just no way to prove out right it is all a lie and false, or it is all true and proven fact.

It is religion. It is supposed to be a help to you and your growth. And if it makes your life better, then don’t yank that out and throw it away. Find out what it means to have faith, what truth is, what God is and how He works. Find out what you believe, and what you don’t. Start to think in terms of the cafeteria approach and what you like and what you don’t…you don’t HAVE to eat everything…you can hold on to the good and let go of the stuff that is distasteful. Own your religion and make it your very own. This way…you can be very authentic and not try to live a lie. In politics, you can associate with a certain party, not because you agree with ALL of what others in that group say, but because you align more closely with that than with other groups. And that is OK. It can be done at church also.

There is a good book you may want to read sometime if you can get your hands on it:

Religion and the Pursuit of Truth by Lowell L. Bennion (written in 1968, but you might be able to find it as a used book)

I think it is a very good read, especially for someone your age.

Anyway, thanks for joining us. Feel free to read and ask questions. Go slow, and tell yourself you don’t need to choose now to totally change your life or not, there are options to get through your crisis.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, Orual, you are definitely among some very fine company here.

I’m about the same age as you only pre-mission.

You don’t need many reasons to stay. A few strong, powerful reasons to stay mean little in the face of many, less-powerful ones to leave.

Quote:

I don’t need proof that it’s true, I just need it to not be proved absolutely false.

In the church, it’s very black and white thinking. It’s either all true or all false. But it doesn’t have to be that way. The things you value in the church are the things that are true to you. Everything else…well, sometimes you just have to come to peace with those things and let them go, “simply because they are too heavy.” I think a large majority of the church are things that I do not find true to myself. But there are just those few precious ones that make it so I don’t think I’ll ever truly leave.

I hope you are able to find peace. Please, stay around and participate. It’s done many of us a lot of good, and I believe it will do the same for you.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Orual – I’m glad you’re here and hope you find what you’re looking for. There are lots of treasures in these threads.

[Anonymous]

Wow, thank you so much to everyone that’s commented. There have been some really great pieces of advice that I will definitely be applying.

Here’s a little update, with a spoiler that I feel much better now, so don’t worry when this gets dark.

I posted here the other day in full crisis mode. I guess I’d just been reading a lot of what’s out there, specifically this time about the Book of Mormon, and maybe I opened the doors a little too quickly, because I got flooded with information and facts of its invalidity. Since my mission, I’ve had a strong connection to the BoM, and it was one of the biggest pillars of my testimony- probably of everyone’s, right? With the church pushing that line so hard, that if the BoM is true then everything else must be true. And so that pillar got suddenly, forcefully knocked down, until I came to a place in my mind where I admitted to myself openly for the first time ever, “it’s not true”.

This had a domino affect, and my anxiety/OCD prone mind rapidly went

:wtf: BoM not true >church not true>no prophets>no spirit>no god>my life is a lie>>have to leave church>have to leave BYU>have to leave state?>friends will leave me>family will leave me>boyfriend will leave me> can’t marry him in the temple>can’t marry anyone in the temple>ALL THE THINGS ARE GONE :wtf:

And so I spent a few days intermittently breaking down into sobs, in mourning for the loss of the life I loved, until finally culminating in a rock bottom depression where suicide seemed…not exactly impending at that moment, but rather, inevitable, because even if I could cope for a day, week, month, 10 years, I felt that the weight was bound to crush me eventually.

Clearly the thinking errors are glaringly obvious now. But that’s mental illness for you I suppose.

I regained composure eventually though, thought some things through, and, came here. And these thoughts have been so spot on. Learn to live in gray area. Take an agnostic approach. Take it slow. Don’t be too hard on myself. Find the truths I still know and love. Create my own religion. Don’t get too caught up in authenticity (that one helped with the Byu problem….just cause I don’t believe it does not automatically mean I have to immediately transfer schools or else. My gosh, get a grip Orual!).

Posting here I wasn’t sure why a stranger would respond to me, I didn’t know why anyone would bother responding to me individually when there wasn’t anything to be said that hasn’t been said already in countless other threads. I guess I felt the responsibility lay all on me, to do the research and find th answers without people coddling me. But I want you all to know that in such small and simple ways, you saved a life. In my current state I don’t know whether I would say it was an answer to prayer or not. But I believe in whatever that goodness is that prompts people to reach out to an anonymous stranger on a message board. Thank you.

I also thank the people that called me out on getting more substantial help. In some odd guilt complex kind of way, I don’t feel comfortable deciding for myself that I need help, I only believe I’m bad enough to deserve it if I hear it from someone else.

I do actually have a therapist, a beloved friend by now. But a TBM. And I didn’t feel comfortable going to him, I didn’t want to be talked into coming back. So…….if anyone knows a good therapist in Utah county, that would understand this very specific problem, let me know. Because don’t want an LDS family services therapist that will think me faithless if I leave the church, and I don’t want a non mormon that will think I’m stupid or delusional to stay. But I promise I will get help as soon as possible.

Anyway, I’ve come to a lot of healthier conclusions now, mainly just giving myself choices, getting rid of the >’s. Like:

*despite want seems like mountains of evidence against the BoM, there are still very educated people that believe in it, there’s always the 1% chance that it is somehow miraculously true. I don’t HAVE to disbelieve it.

*even if it is not true, there are, apparently (though I didn’t know this until this website) people that stay LDS, and even temple worthy (??!) anyway! I do not HAVE to leave my lifestyle

* it also doesn’t mean that nothing is true now. The things that I love about the gospel are still good. There is still plenty of room to believe in God, the spirit, Jesus Christ, if perhaps with altered definitions now. I believe that something has guided me to good things, has confirmed truths to my mind. Come to think of it, I never got “the confirmation” about the BoM as a whole, but I have about specific passages. There is goodness in that book and goodness in the church, and I don’t have to leave those things. This is NOT all or nothing.

* some of my > choices seem unappealing when forced into them, but actually, given the ability to choose them myself, they aren’t that bad. I don’t know what road I’ll take, but I can visualize scenarios where I do choose to leave the church, maybe escape to Oregon and live with my best friend there, meet a great non Mormon guy and have a lovely non temple wedding….and probably still be pretty happy. My life can still have value and meaning and happiness in any scenario.

My point being, I have a lot to figure out, so many many questions about exactly what these “alternate ways to stay LDS” are, but I’m not in crisis mode now, I have time to figure it out. So as I organize those questions more, I’ll post them on the appropriate board here, and with my newfound team here, I’ll figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for coming back and updating us all.

We are here for you. Don’t ever think you are alone. It is an interesting thing that all of us strangers are like the land of misfit toys…not feeling we fit in…but fitting in with each other.

I’m glad you have a therapist and getting help. Judy Brady in SLC is very, very good. But that may be too far for you. If you can’t find anyone else and are in crisis…you may want to just call and talk to her until you find someone else. I can’t recommend her enough.

One thing I just wanted to mention…the love and support you have felt, I would call it an answer to prayers. I have no clue how prayers work…but I would still call it that, especially if you feel it was exactly what you needed. Allow the mysterious things and myths and spiritual things to still be part of your life, while you are trying to figure things out.

The idea that we are not a church function, and yet…support and love can be given, should tell you a lot about the world. Not all goodness comes from the church. But some does. So…go forward looking for the goodness in the church, and then allow yourself to find goodness outside the church…and seek peace and happiness wherever you can find it.

Glad you’re with us.

[Author]

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