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SunbeltRed wrote:Old-Timer wrote:
Just to put this out there, I am quite sure there is more behind the story than one blog post getting someone threatened with disciplinary action. There might not be, since it might be a really hard line Bishop or Stake President, but my gut tells me it is FAR more than that – especially since he immediately shared the post with all of his online friends (including John Dehlin) and asked them to repost it as broadly as possible. I hope the Church at all levels can become more accepting of people who see things in different ways, and I really dislike the idea of blog posts being a factor – but if this post is the last straw in a series of confrontational actions . . .
I just see that last scenario as FAR more likely than this being a one-off post.
Ray, I don’t know the full story, however a lot of the conversation about this was going on yesterday in a FB group which includes the writer of the blog entry. The person who wrote the post didn’t initiate it getting shared by everyone, everyone kept asking him if they could share it and talk about the situation. The feeling I got was that there was basically no quarter given from the SP and area authority. I don’t know what I would do in that situation, but I feel I need to defend the author a bit here. Perhaps there is more to it, I don’t know, but honestly I don’t really care. Threatening someone with excommunication over that blog post is ridiculous, IMHO.
-SBRed
I don’t want to derail any more than it is, and maybe this is a topic on it’s own (but I don’t think so on this site, actually). I’m with Ray. I first heard this a week or so ago on another site. We only know what this one person says, we don’t know the full story. (Where’s Paul Harvey when you need him?) I just find it hard to believe that this one seemingly small thing triggered an excommunication threat. I am open to the possibility it could have happened just like that, but the doubter in me thinks there much more to the story.
Old-Timer wrote:… especially since he immediately shared the post with all of his online friends (including John Dehlin) and asked them to repost it as broadly as possible. I hope the Church at all levels can become more accepting of people who see things in different ways, and I really dislike the idea of blog posts being a factor – but if this post is the last straw in a series of confrontational actions . . .
I just see that last scenario as FAR more likely than this being a one-off post.
Fwiw, I get the impression that it was the
otherbloggers who asked himif they could repost. That’s how it looks from the Facebook conversation. I guess some would say it doesn’t matter and others that it goes to intent.
SBR, fwiw, we had a wonderful discussion of repentance in our HPG. The focus was on changing by becoming more like Christ and on not beating one’s self up over mistakes that might or might not be sins (since we all have thorns of the flesh we inherited and didn’t choose consciously). Of course, it helped that I was there to make that last point about our 2nd Article of Faith.
If there is any wish/intention not to offend – I wonder if they may grasp someday that such “dismissals” labeled as “offense” can themselves be offending. I have a hard time finding any value in explaining the actions of others, except for a genuine desire to understand. When I hear comments in church about what people of other faiths believe – it is generally not productive. When I hear simplistic comments explaining why people have left the church, such as “they were offended” or “they were only looking for excuses” – it is not helpful. How does identifying a “weakness” in someone else help me become a more Godly person?
Of course I must also look at the flipside, are my comments right here productive or useless/condemning? Of course I like to think they are worth reflection to learn from but I must always be open to other realities.
Quote:If there is any wish/intention not to offend – I wonder if they may grasp someday that such “dismissals” labeled as “offense” can themselves be offending.
I have a hard time finding any value in explaining the actions of others, except for a genuine desire to understand. When I hear comments in church about what people of other faiths believe – it is generally not productive. When I hear simplistic comments explaining why people have left the church, such as “they were offended” or “they were only looking for excuses” – it is not helpful. How does identifying a “weakness” in someone else help me become a more Godly person?
Of course I must also look at the flipside, are my comments right here productive or useless/condemning? Of course I like to think they are worth reflection to learn from but I must always be open to other realities.
I think that is where I am right now and why I couldn’t/can’t just let it go. There was a jovialness to the talk, kind of like, “I could have been offended like Bro. Marsh, but I wasn’t.” My jaw just dropped. The speaker is the newest member of our Bishopric. Does this mean all the empty pews are results of weak little people being offended?
I am also with slowlylosingit – How long does Thomas Marsh need to dragged through the mud before we allow him to be forgiven? I am assuming God already has, but 170+ years later we can’t. We call ourselves disciples? Really. Thomas Marsh did a lot of good in some dark hours for the church. It might not even still be in existence if not for Thomas Marsh. Plus we have tons of excommunicated “top guys” who were offended, returned etc. But I don’t hear us dragging William W. Phelps excommunication/mob participation time out for everyone. No we just sing his songs and read the “friends once, friends again” with Joseph Smith thing. Even William Laws gets off easier than Brother Marsh. I just picture us in heaven having to line up and do personal penance to Thomas Marsh for eternity.
As you can read I am still peeved. I keep trying to let go, but it ain’t happening today. I’ve probably been offended.
:crazy: mom3 wrote:I am also with slowlylosingit – How long does Thomas Marsh need to dragged through the mud before we allow him to be forgiven?
I wasn’t totally up to speed on Bro. Marsh so I googled him. From wikipedia it seems that his departure from the church coincided with Danite raids, burning, and looting of Gallatin MO. Certainly the truth is more complex than the milk strippings story. Wikipedia also suggests that the first known account of the milk stripping story was given some 17 years after Bro. Marsh’s excomunnication.
Quote:On April 6, 1856, George A. Smith claimed that Marsh had left the church because of a dispute between his wife and other Mormon women over a milk cow, which had escalated all the way up to the First Presidency.[13] LDS Church president Gordon B. Hinckley has repeated the story,[14] as do official church publications.[15]
I don’t want to thread jack this post, but, since it was mentioned and I asked, I have learned a little bit more about the polygamy post author – just enough to make sad sense of the situation: It looks like he is a student at BYU-Idaho.
Probably not much more needs to be said than that there is retrenchment, and then there is BYU-I.
Quote:On April 6, 1856, George A. Smith claimed that Marsh had left the church because of a dispute between his wife and other Mormon women over a milk cow, which had escalated all the way up to the First Presidency.[13] LDS Church president Gordon B. Hinckley has repeated the story,[14] as do official church publications.[15]
I think the evidence is pretty good that the milk stripping story never happened. Marsh was opposed to the Danite business and things went from there and then some time later he came back. I can’t give you a source but Arrington or Allen and Leaonard’s book, Story of the Latter-day Saints may have something.
Old-Timer wrote:I don’t want to thread jack this post, but, since it was mentioned and I asked, I have learned a little bit more about the polygamy post author – just enough to make sad sense of the situation:
It looks like he is a student at BYU-Idaho.
Probably not much more needs to be said than that there is retrenchment, and then there is BYU-I.
did you post this in the right thread?Quote:did you post this in the right thread?
It was in response to a comment on the first page of the thread and some brief discussion on the second page.
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