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nibbler wrote:
I’ve chanced upon a warning about the SS lesson scheduled for May 19th.https://www.lds.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-new-testament-2019/19?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.lds.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-new-testament-2019/19?lang=eng That particular lesson includes portions about gay marriage and divorce… you know, because it’s the New Testament and Jesus put so much emphasis on those subjects and had such clear opinions on the matter. The subjects are a small portion of the overall lesson, there’s no guarantee that they will come up, but if you’re in a more conservative ward or have a more conservative instructor the chances are higher. That and the lesson
leads offwith gay marriage = wrong. If your instructor is a read from the manual type it will probably come up first thing and set the tone for the lesson.
Thanks for the heads up. This might be interesting in my ward if our regular teacher is there. Her brother (born female) is transsexual. They both grew up in our ward, the brother now lives elsewhere but does come around to visit sometimes. Most of us in the ward refer to him as he and he has been welcomed on his visits. I don’t think he attends church where he lives. He is single and I’ve not heard mention of a significant other. Our teacher is pretty open about it all, but I still sense some discomfort in groups sometimes – and this would probably be one of them. My bet is she will be “out of town” that week.
And I just realized as luck would have it (tender mercy?) the ward I advise is having ward conference that Sunday and second hour is taught by the stake presidency (they talk about the Area Plan, goals, etc.). Looks like I can avoid that marriage discussion!
I will make sure I am there on May 19th. We have an active transgender member in our ward. I will bring up the lesson in Bishopric Meeting next week. Oh, and our meetings yesterday were good, solid, focused on Easter and good messages. Quote:Oh, and our meetings yesterday were good, solid, focused on Easter and good messages.
Let’s not get Prideful.
Our meeting was a F&T meeting by invite only where people were asked to testify about the atonement. nibbler wrote:
Our meeting was a F&T meeting by invite only where people were asked to testify about the atonement.
Interesting. There is a branch in our stake that does something similar from time to time. They’re given a topic and asked to be prepared to bear testimony. The BP calls on people as he feels inspired. Usually it’s not the whole meeting and more of a filler but it has been the whole meeting. During stake conference we’ve had people called on to bear testimony in the past (and I was once called upon). I don’t know how I feel about it. I guess I’m not opposed to it as much as a filler, but I’m actually not a fan of the way the branch does it. Some people there actually prepare a talk just in case they get called upon, and I’m not sure that’s really in the spirit of the thing. But like I said, I’m pretty iffy about it anyway.
I will say I only hit the highlights (lowlights?) of our meetings Sunday – there were lots of other little things that bothered me. I decided today that I want to try to be more positive.
We’ve never done a whole meeting like that in the past. If I had to guess I think that they forgot it was Easter Sunday until the last minute so they put the scheduled talks on hold and came up with that idea. Or it was a part of the plan. There’s precedent though. In the recent past local leadership forgot it was 5th Sunday and didn’t remember until 10 minutes into the second hour when everyone was sitting in the chapel and the BP came around and wondered what everyone was doing.
🙂 Three talks on repentance today, the last (20 minute one) by an Old Guard “We’re all going to hell” type and that complete with Miracle of Forgivenessquotes. Talk about enduring, I endured to the end (of that meeting) today – barely. Actually the kid (11-year-old deacon) wasn’t bad for an 11-year-old or for him specifically. He even managed to note that repentance means change. Speaker two (young married guy) was monotone and clearly doesn’t get what the 11-year-old does get. The steps of repentance seemed pretty important to him. The last guy was much more about penance than repentance (what I heard of it anyway – I literally hadto tune out). It was sort of one hour church for me. I was in the building but skipped hour two and talked (more listened) to a guy who often needs somebody to talk to in the back foyer (I call that ministering). We did unfortunately get interrupted by a clod asst. clerk, but it was OK. I actually sort of liked the talk being discussed in PH were I to have gone, it was Holland’s “Behold the Lamb of God.” I’ll ask somebody later how it went, but my guess, knowing the “teacher,” is that there was some taking of turns reading through the talk with emphasis on the being on time/dressing appropriately/not talking in the chapel parts as opposed to the Lamb of God parts.
I wasn’t planning on saying anything but now that you’ve bumped the thread. I’ve been starving on the vine for a good experience at church for a very long time now, so I’m looking for a little perspective and balance. A few ears to tell me, “Yeah, that’s kinda bad.” or, “You’re seeing something that just isn’t there.”
Today’s SM subject was authority. Yeah, authority. I tuned most of it out, the only thing I remember is the speaker talking about having some procedural question about something on his mission (not sure what, I had tuned out that much). He went to the MP, the MP didn’t have the answer so he went to his AA, the AA didn’t have the answer, and it continued up the chain… and how great it was that the prophet was finally able to answer some procedural question for all of them. We have to listen to authority.
And I was thinking, “Jeez guys, grow some spiritual self confidence.”
PH was a recap of a training meeting leaders had. Highlights:
1) In the training meeting the SP told everyone to take out their phones, they weren’t adjourning the meeting until everyone got on their phone and reserved a name to do an ordinance at the temple. It was reported that he said that he had all night to wait for everyone there to comply.
2) No more meal calendar sign-ups to feed the missionaries. Meals will now be done by assignment. It will be an issue when they try to assign my family, no one is home at the ridiculous hour the missionaries eat. We simply can’t do it… unless we
schedule it on a day that is convenient for us and plan ahead. Like what we did when there was a calendar. This is at the very heart of my recent issues. I like a church of volunteers, I like feeling like I gave something of myself. Our church (or my stake at the very least) doesn’t do that. They don’t provide people with opportunities to give, they take and expect people’s service. It’s hard to capture the spirit of giving when it’s an expectation.
Luckily the demands can be ignored, but when half of church meetings are dedicated to issuing demands I feel like I’m wasting my time by being there. And when some guy comes over to look at my phone to make sure I’m complying with a demand? C’mon.
I feel like my experiences are at an extreme and reflect very poorly on the church so I’ll refrain from posting them in the public forums.
Meal calendars, temple names, sure it’s small potatoes. It’s more of a cumulative thing. A part of me says that the small things are symptoms of a greater problem. Another part says I should be able to hit a reset button and not have baggage tied to each thing.
The problems of a people pleaser.
:angel: I mean… what’s the worst thing that would happen. Just say no, and when the missionaries don’t get fed they try something else.Quote:time/dressing appropriately/not talking in the chapel parts as opposed to the Lamb of God parts.
We did that for RS today and it became an ugly tug of war. A few converts were like “You guys need a life” – they want to hug, chat, connect with people at church. Not rush in, sit hushed, rush to the next meeting.
The old guard got hung up on Sunday dress and use of technology (because you can easily surf facebook). Or as my friend sitting next to me whispered, “plan your weekly menu.”
I felt for the teacher. She herself is a convert, a new mom, dead tired and really wasn’t up for the rabble that happened. I chimed in because there was no way to get in trouble. I didn’t start the fire, I just threw a few logs on.
It was a great class.
Wow. You absolutely lost the leadership roulette game. Just for perspective:
1) I have had exactly zero bishops and stake presidents in my entire life who would have pulled the temple demand stunt.
2) The temple matron spoke in Stake Conference last week on grace. Her primary text was Brad Wilcox’s “His Grace Is Sufficient”. It was an incredible talk.
3) We were told today in Ward Council that missionaries are encouraged to eat with members – and they have been ordered NOT to ask for referrals, EVER, in members’ homes.
4) I suggested our ward assign ONE person or family to each active, adult member or couple as their primary ministering assignment to be their focus for “active ministering”. Anyone else assigned would be just simple checks – like phone calls, emails, talking at church, etc. The primary assignment would be intended as a long-term match that would be left alone, for years in some cases, unless something just wasn’t working. My bishop loved the idea and said he would talk with the EQP and the RSP about it.
I ended up posting my little rant here because 1) I couldn’t find the thread about Sundays and 2) I’m trying to be more positive on the open forums. I agree, Nibbler, you lost leadership roulette big time. I did mention in a thread about there being little recourse should your bishop/SP go rogue and how our AA would be of little help. He’s one of the authority/accountability types and in fact that’s all I’ve ever heard him speak about but he apparently does tell our SP other stuff because the SP come back with apparently correct info that seems totally in line with what the Brethren seem to be saying.
Last week I was at ward conference in the ward I advise. The MP was there and answered questions in ward council. I’m not a fan, he’s a major control freak. But he did say what Curt said, the missionaries have been instructed not to ask for referrals even when they come and do the little presentation they’re supposed to do with every member. And, he also told us we’re not obligated to feed the missionaries, specifically saying they get money for food. He said that was once emphasized but it no longer is. Like you, Nibbler, we haven’t fed the missionaries in a long time because we don’t get home until after 6. Signing us up to feed the missionaries would have the same result as signing us up to clean the building – it wouldn’t happen. I don’t have the family history whatever app, and would not have pulled out my phone when “ordered.” It’s as simple as that, and I think the SP knows that. I can’t imagine him doing anything close to that.
I know a professional young couple from a neighboring ward. They’re nice people, open thinkers, two young boys. They recently had a stillbirth. That ward is one of the wards from hell. I hate being assigned to speak there. Anyway, I’ve noticed the last month or so this couple comes to our ward, comes in after opening prayer but before sacrament, sits in the back, and leaves during closing song. I did manage to speak to them one Sunday, and I texted yesterday (basically an apology for how awful the meeting was). I think were I in your situation I would do something similar. Of course they seem to be on the same page, I think my wife is more like yours and would not be unless she understood that it was this or nothing for me.
Life has had a lot of little changes recently making it harder to feed the missionaries but we were in the habit of feeding the missionaries about once every two months. We signed up for days that worked for our schedule. Under the new system we could inform the person doing the assignments of our schedule, but how is that any different than passing around a calendar? I don’t get what’s behind circumventing people’s ability to choose though. I could maybe understand it if no one was feeding the missionaries, but that’s a situation where you might make assignments to fill in gaps.
It’s not all bad though. I mentioned that the boundaries to nearly every ward in our stake were redrawn. I’m in a new ward now. All the leadership from my old ward lives on the other side of the fence and so far it looks like the leadership in the new ward will honor my desire to opt out of the ministering program. Issuing the request earned me a visit from the EQP where I explained my reasons.
They’re still stuck in that mode where ministering means showing up and grilling people over their prayer habits, scripture reading habits, etc. In fact the EQP said [paraphrased], “I’d be negligent in my duties in ministering to you if I didn’t ask…”
😆 New wine. Old wineskin.
I’ve mentioned this before but I think a lot of what I’m seeing comes from an overly enthusiastic SP that expects everyone to be as all-in as he is and dare I say following a model that has more in common with Satan’s plan of guaranteeing that people do things he feels they should be doing.
We also have been asked to feed the missionaries if we want to do so. We even got approval for a meal calendering assignment again. Also, the missionaries have been forbidden to tract in our mission – and they now are serving in the community (to and with non-members, NOT members) for at least 10 hours per week.
Our Missionary feeding assignment seems to change monthly. I nearly laughed out loud when I heard the latest version this Sunday. We can feed them at 4 or after 7. But only on assigned nights. I noticed that the clipboard just moved from one person to another.
I actually find it rude that we are sending them door to door during other people’s dinner hour. In my world, if you are knocking on my door – during dinner hours, it better be an emergency. Otherwise I am liable to blast you to kingdom come. For a church that claims “Family First” sending door to door salesman during sacred family hour is hypocritical.
No I didn’t sign up.
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