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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/20/russian-court-bans-jehovahs-witnesses-extremist-group/100701524/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/20/russian-court-bans-jehovahs-witnesses-extremist-group/100701524/ And what makes this relevant to our group:
Quote:The group has been officially banned from the port city of Taganrog since 2009, after a local court ruled the organization guilty of inciting religious hatred by “propagating the exclusivity and supremacy” of their religion, according to the British newspaper The Independent.
The article also cites the JW’s opposition to blood transfusions being against Russian health care laws as a contributing factor but I bet this decision has some dude at Kirton & McConkie sweating пули.
I read this and a couple other articles on the subject. None of them were explicit as to what makes them “extremist.” I suspect the health issue, which was mentioned in tow of the articles, is actually minor. I suspect the lack of allegiance to earthly governments plays a role and apparently there is some longstanding animosity between the JWs, government, and the Russian Orthodox Church. I would also guess their proselyting activities have been curtailed in a way similar to ours – no door-to-door contacting, restrictions on where they can teach, etc., and I don;t know how they have reacted to such restrictions. There are very clear differences in JW doctrine and ours and while ours does seem more closely aligned with some “mainstream” Christian theology, I would also think that we’re on the radar as well. Time will tell.
I read one article about how back in the day the JWs were on the KGB’s radar due in part because they were an American born religion. The Orthodox Church is very aggressive towards other Christians, especially Protestant outgrowths. The Salvation Army were recorded as being paramilitary in Moscow.
The sad part is that just about any religion can feel proud of themselves when things like this happen. This is due to the Biblical promise there would be persecution for people living the gospel (as they understand it) Definitely, SD. Try to imagine what we’d be hearing were this us. I expect it has most to do with opposition from the Russian Orthodox Church and the fact that won’t show allegiance in any way to the Russian state. Their refusal to salute the flag in the US back in the day went all the way to the supreme court and I don’t see Putin as being all that concerned about a religious minority’s civil rights. The LDS church was practically on the same list, back before 1890. Why? Because we held our own standards above the law of the US Government. Brigham Young repeatedly said Utah would never join the union, if the Church was required to disavow polygammy. Fortunately, “revelation” repealed polygammy, per the United States request, and Utah was allowed to join. Before then, the church was on very shakey grounds. But since then, the LDS Church has been very accommodating. I feel bad for the JWs. I can understand the ban, in part, because of their strong anti-government beliefs. I think the whole part about “blood transfusions” was just a poor, ill-thought excuse. No healthcare system should require treatment if the patient is opposed. But the fact that they will oppose the government, when the government acts against their religious beliefs, makes them a threat. The LDS Church
claimsit would put “God’s law” first. And for the most part, we’re pretty good at not caving to social pressures. But if we were ever to issue a policy which went against the laws of the land, we’d most likely adapt, lest we found ourselves in a similar situation. GBSmith wrote:
I expect it has most to do with opposition from the Russian Orthodox Church and the fact that won’t show allegiance in any way to the Russian state. Their refusal to salute the flag in the US back in the day went all the way to the supreme court and I don’t see Putin as being all that concerned about a religious minority’s civil rights.
They won’t do military service, jury service or anything like that and describe states as “beasts” (the bear and the eagle on Russia’s case).
Moscow has banned the Salvation Army of all people
dande48 wrote:But if we were ever to issue a policy which went against the laws of the land, we’d most likely adapt, lest we found ourselves in a similar situation.
Ignoring US examples for the moment (because it is the LDS’ home government), the LDS has caved in elsewhere, notably in Israel where the Hebrew BOM was withdrawn and missionary efforts stopped after government pressure.
Other areas that the LDS has little penetration due to government pressure include Mainland China and the Muslim countries. There are chapels in some of those countries but converting Muslims is a no no. In the PRC, all churches must be under state control so the LDS and RCs are technically banned although both do operate, and some Chinese have converted abroad.
The Mormon missionary image does them no favours. Young men in suits wandering around abroad – almost like a caricature of American spies.
dande48 wrote:
The LDS church was practically on the same list, back before 1890. Why? Because we held our own standards above the law of the US Government. Brigham Young repeatedly said Utah would never join the union, if the Church was required to disavow polygammy.Fortunately, “revelation” repealed polygamy, per the United States request, and Utah was allowed to join.
I think it was threat of consfiscation of assets that repealed plural marriage. It took that threat for the prophet at the time to see the light. He even pointed to the consequences — confiscation of assets — as one of the reasons he wrote the Manifesto. Notice how it was the asset confiscation that pushes the prophet to disavow plural marriage — the people practicing plural marriage were in jail, and even that wasn’t enough to make the prophet issue the manifesto — it took the threat of confiscation of assets.
It’s one reason I have a bit of a hard time with the church — for a divinely commissioned organization, they sure do buckle principle when temporal assets are at stake. I’ve seen it in my own life. Several times. They are willing to sacrifice membership (such as letting faithful members go to prison) to obey their principles, but not their temporal assets. That breaks my heart.
SamBee wrote:
Ignoring US examples for the moment (because it is the LDS’ home government), the LDS has caved in elsewhere, notably in Israel where the Hebrew BOM was withdrawn and missionary efforts stopped after government pressure.Other areas that the LDS has little penetration due to government pressure include Mainland China and the Muslim countries. There are chapels in some of those countries but converting Muslims is a no no. In the PRC, all churches must be under state control so the LDS and RCs are technically banned although both do operate, and some Chinese have converted abroad.
This is another large difference between the JWs and the LDS Church. The JWs are notorious for practicing, preaching, and proselytizing underground, even when the law prohibits them from doing so.
I used to live in mainland China. Let me tell you, it was a whole lot of fun, travelling 8 hours every Saturday and eight hours every Sunday to make it to church! From what I recall, the LDS Church is on a very tight leash with the PRC. Most other churches are required to have their local leadership personally selected by the PRC. The LDS Church did not agree; local leadership must be selected by “revelation”. And so, we were faced with even tighter restrictions than most religions. LDS Chinese citizens must’ve joined the Church outside of the PRC, and can only meet with other members of the PRC. Members of the Church on visa are not allowed any religious contact with LDS citizens. Proselytizing is forbidden. Public practice is forbidden. Baptism is forbidden.
The main reason for these restrictions is out of fear of outside authority and influence, that may contradict the PRC’s authority.
SilentDawning wrote:
It’s one reason I have a bit of a hard time with the church — for a divinely commissioned organization, they sure do buckle principle when temporal assets are at stake. I’ve seen it in my own life. Several times. They are willing to sacrifice membership (such as letting faithful members go to prison) to obey their principles, but not their temporal assets. That breaks my heart.
My biggest beef with Church History, is how Brigham Young became a $#@%ing multi-millionaire in the 1800s, with his 50+ wives… because he “worked hard”? NOPE!!! Because he was the prophet.
“Thrown in jail? No problem. Let me handle your business assets. God requires you to serve a mission? Let me take over your your property.” Capitalism at its finest…
Quite a few Chinese (as in PRC) seem to be converting abroad. It’s a tiny percentage but an interesting potential Trojan horse. (Chinese in the Diaspora tend to be much more likely to be Christian, although I don’t think they make much headway in Taiwan and Hong Kong.)
We could potentially be heading for an African type situation in the PRC where people are baptized unofficially, and the church has to come back and rebaptize some of the people later on.
Just now Russians have little access to the LDS temples. There is Kiev in the Ukraine but Russia and Ukraine are at loggerheads just now. Korea, Japan and Finland are perhaps their main options.
What has the LDS got going against it in Russia: * It’s not Orthodox. Or Catholic.
* It is very American.
* Its missionaries look like and are run like agents.
* It is seen as a strict sect.
* The emphasis on tithing.
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