Sad Heaven

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

“Blue Flower” in the comments section says s/he has been pretty much written off by family after leaving the church, and then this:

Quote:

In retrospect, I believe all of our relationships were doomed right from the start because of the Mormon intrusion. We would never be able to bond completely to one another because Mormonism was the middle man. It’s always been this way, therefore I’m relatively at peace with stifling my disappointments about familial relationships. But every now and again… birthdays, holidays, or reading an op-ed that zeroes right in on this issue… I get incredibly depressed and sad about how crippled my family was made by the Mormon religion. Parents couldn’t unconditionally love children because what if, what if. They had to raise kids with care, but not with love. Children then don’t learn how to love or be loved. Siblings can’t see the benefits of bonding as friends for life. Families can be together forever… IF. That IF paralyzes families from even being interested in being together forever. We were so crippled by Mormonism. Sometimes, when I let the emotions in, it aches to live with this harm. It’s hard not to be resentful, too.

I think not a few families aren’t functional enough to overcome the number that our view of heaven and our culture can do on them. I’d put mine in that category. My dad especially didn’t know how to relate to his sons after they became inactive. He said they threw away the only good thing he had to give them. The church! And I DO blame the church for abetting that thinking. Especially “back then.” I think it’s trying to do better.

I think it’s really sad that something we teach as so important and really does do a lot of good to bring families closer together, also has the ability to tear them apart because of those beliefs.

I don’t think I’d agree with most of what Blue Flower said though. While that fear can paralyze some families I don’t think it’s the majority or even close to it. I have a great relationship with my family and siblings. It has far more to do with how your parents raise you and the love they show for you than any affect the mormon religion directly has on your family, IMO. Seems like they are blaming the mormon religion for unloving parents which affected the dynamics of the whole family.

[Anonymous]

I think Blue Flower and those like her (with a family history from the dysfunctional side of the tracks, like mine) are saying is that the church’s stress on faithfulness to the church becomes something that families without a history of loving bonds, family pride, etc., latches onto in a damaging way.

[Anonymous]

DevilsAdvocate wrote:

Maybe in theory but in practice I think one of the main reasons the idea of heaven and hell is so popular to begin with is simply because many people like to think that they and most of the people they care about (and their pets) are all going to heaven whereas hell is typically reserved (in their minds) for the truly bad such as murderers, rapists, etc. so they can get their just due. So the LDS teachings mostly complicate things compared to this basic comforting view.

…

That’s what’s really sad about all this, we basically have people suffering and treating each other poorly in real life over what could be based entirely on imagination for all we really know.

I do think mormons want certainty. They want their calling and election “Made Sure”…they want to bind things on earth so they’ll be bound in heaven with promises.

I believe many righteous mormons have faith that there will not be the divisions in their family, but their ties will be eternal, despite temporary situations. My father believed this strongly when my sister left the church. He had comfort that she was not “lost” to him, or ever would be, no matter what her choices at the moment, she would return. My father loved her. Always. He did not shun her, ever. (My mom did because she was pissed at her at times, but my dad used his mormonism to have hope).

While some mormons believe too literally and loose family ties because of it, not all do. Many use it to hang on to ties with hope and faith. I have seen it.

I would say that mormonism gives these teachings of hope to all parents…but not all understand it or embrace it.

Brigham Young wrote:

“Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang

Lorenzo Snow wrote:

If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity

Quote:

It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children, for a time, to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons or daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they have tried so hard to do what they should.

It is my conviction that those wicked influences one day will be overruled….

We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them.

-Elder Packer, GC, April 1992

Quote:

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught a more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.

(Orson F. Whitney, in Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110).

While relationships are strained because of belief in justice and judgement to be worthy to enter heaven, it is not necessarily the church teachings that cause separations or rifts in families, but sometimes the lack of understanding of gospel teachings that imperfect members have.

Rightly understood…mormonism preaches hope beyond this life’s actions. Emphasis is on sealing powers through the spirit of promise. Perhaps there is a lack of emphasis on the relationships now and today, and that is sad.

Therefore, I think most mormons imagine a heaven with much weeping…but more the kind that is like the Father of the prodigal son as families return to be united forever. (and the bad people kept out so we can enjoy our family time). It is weeping for joy, not sadness in heaven.

When I step back and think of that…um…I don’t really understand how that can work on a practical level. It honestly is hard to imagine heaven excludes anyone that way when we do so much temple work.

Perhaps that is my point…perhaps it is way less exclusive than we think it will be. While we occupy ourselves with striving for the highest degree of the highest degree of kingdoms and mansions and want magic sealing powers to make it sure to happen, that is just what we want…who knows how it will be…God has it figured out.

Either that…or we all have no clue what heaven is and see through a glass darkly…but at least with mormonism…you can hope for great things (regardless of what actually happens).

Perhaps we are saying the same thing, DA. There is a gap between theory and practice. Gospel theory vs church practice. Not all mormons practice it the same. Some are more positive and loving and some are not.

[Anonymous]

As I prepare to let my wife know of at least some of my level of (dis)belief, I notice all these quotes are about children leaving, not spouses. I wonder if that has been less of an issue until more recently.

[Anonymous]

LH…what a great point you bring up.

My personal experience was that it applies to spouses also, or just others in society. How we view all people who dont have same views as us. I say this because of the things that were told to me as I went through divorce, and was told I was breaking eternal covenants of marriage, and bishops that warned me of eternal consequences to my family. I heard many hurtful and troubling things by some people at church.

But I studied those things…and I don’t really see the church teaches it that way. It is only how some people frame it or grab on to some ideas to make it make sense for them and their lives. People in church have a hard time accepting divorce because they want to avoid it themselves. They have a hard time accepting a spouse or child can leave the church or stop believing it because they want to protect their beliefs. And many comments at church are around affirming them the important of believing and not accepting non-belief or doubt.

How do I avoid having a view of a “sad heaven”?

I hear the contradictions by people at church about it. I study it out for myself and see what feels right to my heart and through my experience in life.

Believers want surety their covenants give them a sure bond in the afterlife, that is their imperfect faith. Then personal circumstances get convoluted and complicated, then they say they don’t know how it will work but God will make it right. They still search for Hope. They still cling to hope that in the next life, a spouse can be given time to come around. The church teachings give them an out by having hope “God will make it right if we don’t understand all things now”.

So the believing mormon spouse can have hope to keep loving the unbelieving spouse according to church teachings.

The nonbelieving spouse can have hope to keep loving the believing spouse because we will find out if there is a next life or if any of it is different when we get there.

Since it is likely one or the other is wrong, many couples in the church find a way to make it work with hope and faith. Despite hurtful comments made by some people in church who don’t fully understand things.

I know some people who have been told they should divorce their nonbelieving spouse to stay loyal to God and priesthood blessings. That is another choice some make. But I don’t really believe the church teaches that, although I think some people process it that way.

What do you think?

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

How do I avoid having a view of a “sad heaven”?

Can it be avoided?

When we create a vision of heaven, intentionally or otherwise we also create a vision of hell. The brighter we make heaven, the darker hell gets. One might have to abandon a view of a happy heaven in order to avoid a view of sad heaven.

unsure wrote:

I think it’s really sad that something we teach as so important and really does do a lot of good to bring families closer together, also has the ability to tear them apart because of those beliefs.

I was tempted to rely on my previous statement of everything having its opposite but I think a lot of the anguish people feel actually could be alleviated with the belief that in time god will redeem all. For instance, how much time do Mormons spend worrying about whether or not they will resurrect? Probably not very much, resurrection is a “given.” By contrast, how much time is spent worrying whether we are CK material?

Maybe the ship runs aground when we believe that it’s the dogma itself that saves us. What if we believed in each other instead?

Still I go back to this idea. When we create an inside and place people in it we’re also creating a populated outside. Believing there is a power that seals families comes with the baggage that there is a power equal in measure that divides them. Is it possible to conquer the dividing force by letting go of our desire for the unifying force? Can the dividing force be conquered by viewing the unifying force as a given?

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting discussion. I actually asked a similar question a few years back. You can check out that discussion here: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2818

[Author]

Posts