Same path different direction?

[Anonymous]

*******The quick version — I was an atheist, now feel more like god is a possibility or at least there are some unseen, not understood forces. I participate in church as a non member, trying to find someway to fit in.*********

I really like this forum. I feel slightly better knowing I’m not the only one that thinks the way I do. I feel like I maybe at the same point as a lot of the people here but I’m moving in the opposite direction. I have issues with specific lds things, many are discussed here.

Maybe you could call it a trail of a lack of faith. I decided there was no god at a young age. I ignored everything related to any religion as I grew up. I dismissed the whole world as crazy. If there was no way to prove it I wouldn’t believe it. I also suffer from the all or nothing mentality, but I’m getting better. As time went by I became less of the angry atheist and more agnostic. For me its a big change. I don’t know why people think they are so closely lumped together. I think the difference between saying “There is no god” and “I don’t think I can know whether god exist or not” is huge.

When my DH decided he wanted to convert recently, I didn’t care. I thought I could go along, be open minded, and explore religion for the first time in my life. The open minded part was harder than I expected. I thought you just willed yourself to do it and it was done. But with some time I think I’ve got the hang of it.

I’ve decided its ok the experiment with my beliefs, treat religion as an experiment and see what happens. So I attend the church and the discussions with my DH. I’m mostly comfortable with the exception of RS (my issues with this are very complicated). I think its extremely important to do things with my husband, some peoples relationships maybe different than this. But if I was strongly against the church I wouldn’t feel right being there. I figure if at the end of Sunday I feel good, then it was right to go.

I see the church as more good than bad, but all or nothing part of me doesn’t like this. I have nothing against the lifestyle. I gave up coffee and tea because I said I would. It doesn’t matter that much and hasn’t hurt me at all. Part of me doesn’t want to participate in anything that isn’t 100% correct. But this also seems unrealistic. I will never completely fit in anywhere.

I have avoided being baptised so far. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I would lean towards it but I’m afraid they would ask me details of my belief and I couldn’t lie. I can’t say they are wrong. All I can say is I don’t know for sure. So I guess I am willing to except what they say for the sake of experiment. I think that is faith. And faith is what they want, but I don’t think they will except my belief.

[Anonymous]

pickles wrote:

The quick version — I was an atheist, now feel more like god is a possibility or at least there are some unseen, not understood forces. I participate in church as a non member, trying to find someway to fit in.

Welcome. I really appreciate hearing your story and point of view, especially your feelings about god, which I think I share. As an ‘investigator’ your perspective is pretty unique here. I look forward to seeing how things play out for you. Assuming, that is, that we don’t scare you off 😈.

Quote:

I will never completely fit in anywhere..

No worries. Nobody else does, really, except in themselves. And here, sometimes.

Quote:

All I can say is I don’t know for sure. So I guess I am willing to accept what they say for the sake of experiment. I think that is faith. And faith is what they want.

That indeed is faith. And honesty.

Quote:

… but I don’t think they will accept my belief.

You might be surprised.

[Anonymous]

pickles wrote:

*******The quick version — I was an atheist, now feel more like god is a possibility or at least there are some unseen, not understood forces. I participate in church as a non member, trying to find someway to fit in.*********

…I decided there was no god at a young age…I also suffer from the all or nothing mentality, but I’m getting better. As time went by I became less of the angry atheist and more agnostic…I’ve decided its ok the experiment with my beliefs, treat religion as an experiment and see what happens. So I attend the church and the discussions with my DH. I’m mostly comfortable…I figure if at the end of Sunday I feel good, then it was right to go.

I see the church as more good than bad, but all or nothing part of me doesn’t like this. I have nothing against the lifestyle. I gave up coffee and tea because I said I would. It doesn’t matter that much and hasn’t hurt me at all. Part of me doesn’t want to participate in anything that isn’t 100% correct. But this also seems unrealistic. I will never completely fit in anywhere.

I have avoided being baptised so far. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I would lean towards it but I’m afraid they would ask me details of my belief and I couldn’t lie. I can’t say they are wrong. All I can say is I don’t know for sure. So I guess I am willing to except what they say for the sake of experiment. I think that is faith. And faith is what they want, but I don’t think they will except my belief.

If you want to get baptized I wouldn’t worry too much about believing everything the Church says. If you’ve already been attending the meetings and feel good about it and don’t mind the lifestyle then you are already way ahead of many people we baptized on my mission. As long as you keep quiet about any contradictory opinions you will fit in fine, and if you get tired of it you can always quit later. If you don’t really want to be baptized or would rather wait and think about it more that wouldn’t hurt anything either.

I can relate to your story to some extent because I went through an atheist phase as a teenager mostly because I thought evolution made more sense than the Bible creation story based on the physical evidence we see but I didn’t think other Church members would understand so I didn’t really want to say anything about it. However, I couldn’t explain some spiritual experiences that people have and felt good about the Church and other members so eventually I just assumed that God probably used evolution as part of the creation process and that it wasn’t important to know the details of how everything fit together. Personally, I think many Church members have had more doubts like this than they like to admit.

[Anonymous]

I hope that we can help you find a way to sort it out. One thing I do appreciate about StayLDS is that part of it’s mission is to accept that each person must find their own pathway, whether that is the LDS pathway or something else – it will be respected.

[Anonymous]

DevilsAdvocate wrote:

I just assumed that God probably used evolution as part of the creation process

I see no reason why god couldn’t have created evolution.

Since I don’t take everything literally, and think that anything printed by man is likely to contain error, religion doesn’t really conflict with science in my mind. Science is always disproving itself, so I don’t take it that seriously. Maybe science and religion each have some things that are right.

I also think it’s possible that we create our own reality. Maybe at the point someone decided there was an atom, that’s when the atom became reality. Or at the moment bacteria was discovered it became part of our world. But maybe these things didn’t really exist before that.

Why couldn’t reality change with time? Why wouldn’t God let us have influence over our own world?

[Anonymous]

pickles wrote:

DevilsAdvocate wrote:

… Why wouldn’t God let us have influence over our own world?

Why not indeed.

[Anonymous]

Hi Pickles!

Thanks for taking some time to share some background information so we can get to know you better. Welcome to the community! Yours is an interesting situation. I am pretty sure my father-in-law was like that. He attended with my wife’s family for years and years w/o being baptized. He was very science-oriented (was a full MD and a psychiatrist). He finally got baptized and they were sealed in the temple. I didn’t get to know him because he died before I met my DW, but he would have been absolutely FASCINATING! Can I miss someone I never met?

pickles wrote:

I also think it’s possible that we create our own reality. Maybe at the point someone decided there was an atom, that’s when the atom became reality. Or at the moment bacteria was discovered it became part of our world. But maybe these things didn’t really exist before that.

Why couldn’t reality change with time? Why wouldn’t God let us have influence over our own world?

Oooooooh… 😯 You and I … we play with some similar ideas in our heads. LOVE IT!!!

[Anonymous]

Welcome Pickles,

I am very interested in your thoughts and ideas. Yours is a situation I haven’t come across before (I didn’t serve a mission and I live in an area with a high concentration of LDS). Thanks for trusting us to be a part of your journey.

CG

[Anonymous]

I knew a man in the Boston area who was married to a Mormon woman for 30 years – took her and the kids to church then went to Mass – paid tithing – paid for his sons to serve missions – woke up one morning after 30 years and said to his wife:

Quote:

It’s probably time I joined the Church.

We met him about 5 years later, when they were stake missionaries and before he became the High Priests Group Leader. He had met with the missionaries for so many years (as a “practice investigator” when they had nobody to teach) that he knew the Gospel better than they did.

[Anonymous]

Thread title reminds me of the song Same Direction. Not for all tastes, but the lyrics (redacted here) I thought were pretty cool.

Quote:

Whenever I step outside, somebody claims to see the light.

It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.

‘Cause everyone thinks they’re right, and nobody thinks that there just might

be more than one way to our final destination.

But I’m not ever gonna know if I’m right or wrong

’cause we’re all going in the same direction.

And I’m not sure which way to go because all along

we’ve been going in the same direction.

I’m tired of playing games, of looking for someone else to blame

for all the holes in answers that are clearly showing,

for something to fill the space. Was all of the time I spent a waste,

‘Cause so many choices point the same way I was going?

So why does there only have to be one correct philosophy?

I don’t want to go and follow you just to end up like one of them.

And why are you always telling me what you want me to believe?

I’d like to think that I can go my own way and meet you in the end.

Go my own way and meet you in the end.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Pickles! I love the way your mind works. I too subscribe to the theory that we create our own realities… both on a personal and at a global level. I look forward to more posts from you.

By the way, have you seen the film… What the Bleep!?: Down the Rabbit Hole …so fascinating!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the warm welcome everybody.

flower wrote:

By the way, have you seen the film… What the Bleep!?: Down the Rabbit Hole …so fascinating!

Nope have not seen it but I will try now.

doug wrote:

Thread title reminds me of the song Same Direction.

Those are pretty interesting lyrics.

Brian Johnston wrote:

He attended with my wife’s family for years and years w/o being baptized. He was very science-oriented (was a full MD and a psychiatrist). He finally got baptized and they were sealed in the temple.

Old-Timer wrote:

woke up one morning after 30 years and said to his wife:

It’s probably time I joined the Church.

What I really wonder is, what made these people change their mind after so may years? How was their experience different being a non-member for so many years?

As I try to come up with a pro – con list in my head, I realize there is a lot of data I don’t have. How can I understand how I will feel without years of experience on both sides of the fence?

I guess the obvious practical examples are callings and the temple. As a non-member I’m probably not going to be in an a position of being asked to do something I really don’t want to. But I also may not be asked to do something I would like to do. Since at this point in my life I’d only consider myself quasi-spiritual at best, I don’t know what the temple would mean to me. Being left out of things makes me a little grump though. Even though I’m a bit of an introvert, I still have that normal human desire to be included. Even if that just means watching everyone else from the corner.

Aspects of the baptism itself rub me the wrong way. Can’t we just get our hands stamped? You have to fill out paperwork. If that’s what I wanted I could just go to DMV. Then the interrogation… and who needs a crowd of people they barely know standing around watching?

Maybe it a small price to be able to stay close to my DH.

[Anonymous]

An eternal hand stamp. Interesting. Kind of like Voldemort’s dark mark . . . 😈

As to my friend in MA, his very devout Catholic mother died. Honestly, it probably wasn’t more complicated than that for him.

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Even if that just means watching everyone else from the corner.

So, you understand the people who might attend your baptism. 😆

Quote:

who needs a crowd of people they barely know standing around watching?

Then do it privately, if you end up getting baptized at some point in your life. Do it with only a few closest friends there. Your Bishop might not think that option is ideal, but insist. There’s nothing that says it has to be a public event. As long as the Bishop approves of the ordinance and there are two authorized witnesses, you can do it with as few as four people: you (the baptizee), your husband (the baptizer) and two witnesses (if one of them is or represents the Bishop). Anyone else is “extra”. It doesn’t have to be part of a formal meeting, with talks and songs and refreshments served afterward. That’s all culture.

Oh, and just so you know, the recording of name on paperwork is to keep rogue missionaries from baptizing people who really shouldn’t be baptized, try to keep track of those who join the Church (a good thing, in principle) and, doctrinally, to record your name in the Book of Life that is kept here on earth – a Biblical practice. It’s symbolic AND practical, but people get “lost” all the time when they move and don’t go to church in their new area. I personally think it’s cool at least to give a nod to that particular Biblical practice.

[Anonymous]

My time is very limited at the moment, but I wanted to welcome pickles and to thank you for sharing with us. We all share and we all benefit.

In one particular circumstance an investigator felt claustrophobic around the small baptismal font. My cool bishop made arrangements for us to use a local hotels swimming pool. It was cool and helped me to understand how things can be modified to fit the situation.

I admire your determination to stay close with your husband. Sounds like he is a lucky man.

[Anonymous]

First of all, welcome! Nice to meet you and read your intro. Great story.

pickles wrote:

What I really wonder is, what made these people change their mind after so may years? How was their experience different being a non-member for so many years?

Those I have talked with seem to have different experiences, its a personal thing that differs from person to person.

For some, they just have a spiritual experience they cannot deny, and it took a while to have one of those.

For some, they felt it was good for many years, but just held out trying to see if their feelings would change over time, only to finally realize they have run out of reasons to put it off any longer…and just make the choice to move ahead with something they’ve believed for a long time.

For some, it seems to create bonds with family and friends, and that is good enough for them too…it is a good thing, even if there are still questions.

I also have talked to some that do not get baptized…and they remain great people, still serving and loving others and have trials and times of peace, like the rest of us.

I guess the one thing I’d say is that I think spiritual matters take faith. You will never be able to find out all information to complete your Pros and Cons list … that is just unrealistic. I’ve been a member my whole life, but have learned so many new things the last 2 years, that I realize I will never stop learning new things.

You can only take a sample size of data, and base your decision on what you have. If you are honest with yourself and follow your feelings, I think things turn out ok…one way or another. I also don’t think you need to fear choosing wrong. Nothing is final or unrecoverable…there are just different paths that take you on different experiences. As President Monson would say, “Choose your love, and love your choice”.

[Author]

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