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Hey, Stay LDS community. Forgive me. I’m about to go into a long ramble. I haven’t logged in much since I created my account this year but I’m a frequent lurker. To keep things simple, I’m in my mid-twenties and I’m trying to figure out if the church is for me. I love this church–it’s my spiritual home–and I feel I owe it some serious consideration before I disengage. This summer was supposed to be my summer of “leaping in”–I had it in my mind that I was going to become fully active, return to reading my scriptures, embrace everything—make myself “worthy of the spirit” and then put Moroni’s promise to the test. Of course, things haven’t been so easy. I have some serious concerns with church history and church practices–going to church has not helped this. To my benefit, I did go to church the majority of the summer, but sacrament meeting has been difficult. I just keep getting hit with the reality that I don’t believe in much which is so foundational to Mormonism. Relief Society and Sunday School have been better–I like contributing to conversations and I felt like more of what was taught in those classes hit to the basics of the gospel–meaning “be a good person and try to be like Christ.”
To be clear: My purpose in being on this website is not to find ways to “Stay LDS” for the long-term. It’s for the short-term because I have no way of knowing if I will end up “staying” in the church for the long-term. I’m investigating the church, per say, and it’s been a long and painful process. Ultimately, I just want to do what God–or the higher power–or Goodness–or whatever, would want me to do. I want to be a better person. And I want to have joy.
That being said, going to the LDS church makes me feel like a better person. I just also have to wrestle with all the disappointment and self-guessing and anger and guilt and fear, as well. Not a fun experience.
But let me get to the point:
In Church, we’ve had discussions on what set our church apart from other churches. It always goes back to the Priesthood and authority to perform saving ordinances—ordinances essential for salvation. I know a lot of people here think it’s symbolic, but I can’t let this go. It’s been weighing on my mind a lot lately. I don’t understand how our salvation can be so contingent upon something like this. It just feels like a way to compel people to be a part of the church. Yet, I’m also afraid of missing out on my eternity because I’m too proud to go through the temple (the rumored sexism of the temple bothers me–I have no desire to make unbalanced promises to my spouse that he will not return to me–I also don’t have a temple recommend because I don’t like feeling compelled to pay 10% of my income to a Church that doesn’t disclose what it does with its finances and a church I don’t have a full testimony of).
So there you go. I don’t know what I’m asking for. I’ve just been so worried and stressed about this of the late. I’m angry, fearful, and annoyed by the notion of the “saving ordinances” and me missing out on an eternity of happiness because of my pride here on earth. I’m not saying I’ll never go through the temple–it’s completely possible I’ll change in the future. But right now I’m so hung up on the importance of the temple and what happens there.
Let me also add: I’ve been going to a Singles Ward. I don’t know what it’s like in the family wards, but Singles Wards are doing huge pushes on family history work and how so important it is to provide these saving ordinances for our dead. I like doing family history work for the purpose with connecting with the dead, but I feel like I’m getting hit on the head with the “saving ordinances” concept.
I absolutely love the principle and concept of symbolic ordinances – but notice that I said SYMBOLIC ordinances. I also realize, however, that there are serious issues with how much emphasis we often put on the ordinances and, especially, how often they are interpreted literally. If you are interested, the following posted on my personal blog just this past Friday:
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I Don’t Care Much about the Exact Nature of Our Temple Ordinances” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2014/08/i-dont-care-much-about-exact-nature-of.html All I can say is that I have the same thought that our salvation cannot be contingent upon something that the vast majority of the people in the world will never have the opportunity (or even desire) to take part in. Viewing it as symbolic is the only way to get beyond that cognitive dissonance for me. If indeed baptism is required for salvation, I don’t see that the LDS church has a monopoly. In other words, if it is symbolic (as I think it is) it doesn’t really matter who does it or how it’s done. And as a side note since you brought it up, I also feel as you do about family history. It’s mildly interesting to me to discover things about my heritage, but I do not think their salvation hinges on me doing their temple work.
I have lived nearly 50 years in the church and I watch it go in cycles. When I was a kid the most important things were family home evening, food storage, preparing to move to Missouri or where ever the saints would be called. At the time only 15 temples existed world wide. Yes geneology was around, but not the push for saving the dead. At that time lots of people only made it to the temple to get married – if that.
When I was teen – things changed – Every member was now a missionary. We sang songs about, had lessons on it, Sunday School presentations on it and so forth. We also were big into social activities, and ward and stake building costs.
When I was 20+ – Stay At Home Moms and the Book of Mormon took the front seat.
At 30 – everyone was encouraged to have and carry a recommend, even if you had no temple nearby.
By 40 – Our temple numbers rocketed – 100 or more. Historic ones, small local ones, all of the dotting the earth.
Now – we push to keep the buildings full.
My guess is this too will pass, something else will take it’s place. Not all of us will be ready for that event, but it will be the in thing. I sense your concern and desire to do right before God. At those times, I try to assess if my desire is being created from without me or from within me. If it’s from without – I repeat “To Everything There is a Season – and This is Not (insert name of thing) that Season.”
I believe you are doing better than you know.
university, Ray’s blog post is very good and I think makes the key point: having rituals that help us focus on our relationship with Divinity and what we can be doing to progress spirituality can be very useful and helpful, whatever those are.
As to the ordinances being “Saving Ordinances”, I tend to view the mercy of our creator as fairly expansive. IMHO, whatever helps us focus on our relationship with divinity could be called “Saving” ordinances as they help point the way, but I don’t necessarily view them as required for exaltation (though that’s a fairly minority view in most wards.)
This will come up all the time if you continue to be a member of the church as most members seem to “know” that the LDS church is the only true church. If you continue in the church (which I hope you do consider) you will have to “let it go” at some point and just accept that your faith is a bit more non-literal than others.
I also love the symbolic side of ordinances and it is that view of them helps me personally to better understand what goes on in our earthly existence. I believe that almost any ceremony or “ordinance” that can bring one closer to God with a greater commitment to help our fellow beings is a good thing, so in my mind, “saving ordinances” do not necessarily tie themselves exclusively to the LDS church. university wrote:That being said, going to the LDS church makes me feel like a better person.
I, like you, feel this way. I agree that it can be very challenging navigating through it all when there are people you are surrounded by at church who strongly believe we all need to conform to one single ideal. Still, I try focusing on the good side and am moved by the individual actions of those around me who are truly trying to live a Christlike life.
I’m glad you’re asking these questions now. It gets more complicated when you are married. I would post your other questions — tithing, etcetera in other threads to explore your issues there, so you can deal with them one at a time. And develop your own philosophy about how you might want to participate in the church going foward. Having a feel for what you want out of your church experience in the short term, and maybe even the estimated long term will help you make big life decisions later. You are in a critical time because decisions made now will have a large impact later. Now is a good time to explore and decide your opinions on the key issues. I think you can think through things logically and find the literal teachings of saving ordinances to be so problematic that you can let go of it as a deal breaking issue. It was once taught that living the law of consecration and polygamy were required for the highest degree of heaven. Then that changed.
That helps me remember that even if others believe it, and take it literal, or take it as taught by the current prophet so therefore it must be an unchanging rule of heaven that has always been required….well…just give it time and the church is bound to change.
To cope in the mean time…look for goodness, look for the good that comes from good people striving to live better lives, and stretch your mind to let go of literal interpretations and you can find there is beauty in the symbolic meaning of the temple.
Also allow yourself to not care much about the temple right now. Everything has it’s season, and purpose, and it may just not be your season to embrace the temple right now. That’s ok. Allow yourself to not have it be part of your primary focus.
Wherever you are now, seek to learn what God wants you to learn in your season. And the temple, the church and other teachings…they will be there for you to wrestle with at a later point in your life when God prepares you for that. God is ok with that. Especially if you are always striving to better yourself from wherever you are right now.
There is a strength that comes from not caring if others believe the temple is the most wonderful thing in their lives, but you just accept it’s great for them, just not for you.
Seek to own your religion.
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what I like about StayLDS is that the discussion leads people to their own unique path in the religion. My father, an evangelical, born again Christian (you can guess how that makes it fun with my Mormonism), made the comment “We all come to God, but we come by different paths”.
In my True Blue Mormon days, I didn’t like that phrase because it violated the “one true church ” concept. But since I’ve been “liberated” in my thinking, I see it as a valid description of what happens when Mormons start thinking for themselves.
Out comes some very beautiful ways of staying connected with the church, while not necessarily being a traditional believer. For example, Ray’s orthoprax approach and his reliance on parsing of scripture and policy. Roy’s soft involvement in his Ward, and Roy’s vague but hopeful responses to questions from leaders about his future involvement, and his complementary participation in other religions. I feel my own path is characterized by “service without surrender” — without surrendering passion, strong support for family members who engage with the church as traditional believers, maintaining service in the community, and active management of priesthood leadership’s perceptions of myself and my family — for the purpose of maintaining future flexibility to become fully TR-holding and active again. Also, holding the church and the lds experience to its own goal of making “happiness the object and design of our existence”. This, for me, means avoiding long, protracted periods of service/callings for which we have no interest or passion. It also means accepting assignments that provide me with control over how long I serve.
So, I’m interested in seeing the character of your own path as you explore here.
SilentDawning wrote:Roy’s soft involvement in his Ward, and Roy’s vague but hopeful responses to questions from leaders about his future involvement, and his complementary participation in other religions.
Good description SD! In the begginning of my faith crisis a wise pastor told me “You can be Saved and be Mormon, but it won’t be the Mormonism that saves you.”
I read something not long ago that described the animal sacrifice practiced in the OT was a saving ordinance. I suppose it could be but it makes me think about what a saving ordinace is. I guess technically all but the sons of perdition are saved in a kingdom of glory – does that mean that everyone else will eventually submit to the saving ordinances? I suppose “exalting ordinances” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
FWIW, I still see much value in ordinances as personal milestones, as communal ritual and support, and as external representations of internal commitments.
Hi University, Exactly what you said. It weighs heavy on my mind too, and I wonder about the necessity of saving ordinances. Are they necessary and if so, why? Very few people will receive them in this life. Why would they need them in the next life? I have been through the temple but I’ve never been married. So does this mean I will be a servant angel to a polygamous god in heaven?
😯 Still working on answers to this.I don’t think it’s pride to take your own spiritual journey. When we’ve been hurt or even feel damaged by the church there’s a lot of anger and resentment to work through. I think if we’re honestly searching for answers, truth and healing than it’s not pride. It sounds like you are an honest seeker.
🙂 Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Having read through them and had time to reflect, I’ve calmed down about this issue considerably. I’m a major lurker here so I’ve appreciated your comments on several threads. I’m struggling right now to see myself in the church in the future but I remind myself that I’m on a spiritual journey and I don’t know where I’ll be in 5, 10, or even 50 years. I look forward to continuing my activity here, whether that’s posting more than I have or continuing to stop in occasionally. Once again, thanks for your comments 
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