Saying "NO CAN DO!"

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I hope I am not repeating myself. I wrote this about 2 weeks ago but it never seemed to make it!

OK – so about 2 weeks ago I had a visit from 1stC and he extended a call to me to be one of the RS teachers. One that would teach from the JS manual on the 3rd Sunday of each month.

My entire life I have wanted to be an RS teacher. I am a trainer by profession so feel fine in front of others teaching etc. I also wanted this calling as it is a once a month thing……BUT ironically at this time in my life I had to say no!

This was hard for me, but I could not genuinely do anything else. The 1st C knows about my dh dissaffection. As I have only recently really experienced a crisis in faith my feelings surprised him a little. He is an academic, and works for the church as a lawyer. He probably has read all there is to read, and is able to reconcil it all somehow.

Anyway we had an interesting discussion. I basically just said that since the Prop 8 movements, I have become VERY concerned with how the leadership is moving into the future. I find being influenced on how to vote very very confronting. The whole thing started me on a journey of discovery that I wish I never went on. I was so disturbed by the current leadership that I then started researching all modern day revelation to verify what I have a testimony of and what I have done due to culture/tradition/out of respect etc….and have since lost my testimony of the temple, and also question a lot regarding JS and BY.

So as I am doubting, and as I know many women actually think I am somewhat switched on etc (Im not being proud, just acknowledging that I have had influence on others in the past) I cannot get up and teach about JSs lovely letters etc to his family etc when the lesson is only showing a sheer shread of the real JS, as one could ask “which wife, and which family!”

First off the 1stC asked me if I thought JS was “married” to multiple women or just “sealed”? He is a total academic and I wasnt about to get all into definitions so just said “call it whatever, but he had multiple wives, many young, many married to other men that were alive etc”. The practice in my mind was wrong and of man etc. The church has since said we dont practice the doctrine yet my dh was denied a temple divorce from his exwife (he was told it would only happen when she chose to remarry etc), so in essence he now has 2 wives!!!!!! So yes this is a sensitive subject for dh and me.

Well then the 1st C basically just really stressed to me that I should seek a greater testimony of the BoM. This advice did kind of blow me away. I actually dont have huge issues with the BoM. I like the book. I dont care if it is fact or not, as I often learn something when I read it. I think the book is good. It may or may not be truth or divine, but Ive had good experiences with it. However even if it was proven to be all that we are taught in Primary, that does not alter my doubts over so many other parts of the church, and what past prophets have commanded us to do.

So in the end he left with my “no can do” response. Im thinking now I have been placed into the “she is becoming more like her dh” box…but really what choice do I have regarding this calling.

Its the first time EVER I have said no. I guess that is probably why it feels odd. I want to remain a member but if I was honest I have no idea how it all will pan out. Time will tell….

[Anonymous]

SallyM wrote:

This was hard for me, but I could not genuinely do anything else.

Hi Sally. I’m Jordan. Loved your post.

Being genuine is where God would always have us.

Quote:

I was so disturbed by the current leadership that I then started researching all modern day revelation to verify what I have a testimony of and what I have done due to culture/tradition/out of respect etc….and have since lost my testimony of the temple, and also question a lot regarding JS and BY.

I know how this goes. A total domino effect. I had the same thing. Different starting point, but same result.

Quote:

The whole thing started me on a journey of discovery that I wish I never went on.

This caught my eye. I remember feeling the same way. If you stay ‘genuine,’ you won’t always feel this way. As it has unfolded for me, this struggle has become precious to me. It’s made me find myself.

Quote:

Well then the 1st C basically just really stressed to me that I should seek a greater testimony of the BoM. This advice did kind of blow me away. I actually dont have huge issues with the BoM. I like the book. I dont care if it is fact or not, as I often learn something when I read it. I think the book is good. It may or may not be truth or divine, but Ive had good experiences with it. However even if it was proven to be all that we are taught in Primary, that does not alter my doubts over so many other parts of the church, and what past prophets have commanded us to do.

Yes, the book is good, and may or may not be perfect. It’s funny, but that’s how many come to feel about the other aspects about the church, even JS up to modern day prophets. They are good, may or may not be perfect, and we’ve had good experiences there – worth investing in, worth believing, worth following, trusting, but not perfect.

Makes me think of the faith described in alma 32. faith that’s worth chasing because it’s good.

Good doubting, on the other hand, is always good. It leads to deeper thinking and better truth.

Quote:

Its the first time EVER I have said no. I guess that is probably why it feels odd. I want to remain a member but if I was honest I have no idea how it all will pan out. Time will tell….

You may or may not decide to stay a member of the church. My only advice here would be to decide from a place of peace. Don’t leave angry or confused. Be patient and give these issues time. I’m glad I did not leave too soon because I’ve found a place of genuine peace and goodness within the church that I cherish. These issues are reconcilable. So if you leave, leave because it’s better to leave. If you stay, stay because it’s better to stay.

The journey is worth it. I’m excited to see where it takes you.

[Anonymous]

Sally, Pretty much everything I was thinking of saying Jordan already said.

My only re-emphasis:

Everything really is reconcilable, as long as you are willing to accept that the Church isn’t perfect (meaning both “free of mistakes” and the Biblical “complete, whole, fully developed”) and neither are any of the members – including leaders all the way to the Prophet. My faith now is stronger than the knowledge I thought I had earlier in my life, so I can tell you it’s worth it.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you would be a really awesome RS teacher SallyM. It is totally ok to say “no, not right now” though if you aren’t in the right frame of mind. I understand the fear of having to teach some lesson topics. You have to be at a point where you are comfortable and at peace with it. Things might change in the future. You said it was something you always wanted to do, so I would recommend trying to keep that bridge there.

I have the exact same type of calling in Elders Quorum. I teach once a month, and its my favorite calling. I look through the topics in the lesson manual and feel some anxiety at times about having bad luck of the draw. It doesn’t bother me too much though. I am fine chopping up lessons and focusing on parts that have meaning to me. My ward is one where the leadership is thrilled just to have someone show up prepared for the lesson , so they aren’t picky. They aren’t watching to make sure that I never steer off the correlated lesson text. I enjoy introducing challenging questions and pushing people in the class just a little bit. That has to be done just right though so it isn’t too edgy and controversial. Most of the brothers in the class stay awake though, that’s a big accomplishment

[Anonymous]

SallyM:

Quote:

I cannot get up and teach about JSs lovely letters etc to his family etc when the lesson is only showing a sheer shread of the real JS, as one could ask “which wife, and which family

No question, that was hands down the worst lesson so far this year in the JS manual. Most of the lessons, though, have been quite easy to teach following a method similar to what Valoel describes. I also teach RS, 2nd Sundays. And I love teaching. Fortunately for me, we got off schedule and skipped JUST that lesson #20 – A Heart Full of Faith and Love.

I have been blogging the RS lessons at Mormon Matters, pointing out some of these issues, but also trying to get deeper meaning out of them as well. Here is a link to the one on Lesson #20: http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/09/virtual-rsph-20-a-heart-full-of-love-faith-the-prophets-letters-to-his-family/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/09/virtual-rsph-20-a-heart-full-of-love-faith-the-prophets-letters-to-his-family/

[Anonymous]

SallyM,

Congratulations. I wish I could be like you.

The “never seek nor decline a calling” has been so ingrained in me that I fight it all the time.

I’m on the verge of asking to be released from my current calling. The other night when I was stressing out over it, I went back in my journal and saw that when I was called I really didn’t want the calling and actually told the stake president I would have to think about it. I eventually told him yes, mostly because I hated the calling I was in at that time and looked at the new calling as an escape. Out of the frying pan, into the fire is the kind of escape it was…

I wish I had just said no. In fact, I can think of at least four callings that I should have said no to, including the second round in the bishopric when I knew it would make me crazy. (It did. You can attribute my craziness to being in the bishopric twice.)

Good luck in your struggle.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Everything really is reconcilable, as long as you are willing to accept that the Church isn’t perfect (meaning both “free of mistakes” and the Biblical “complete, whole, fully developed”) and neither are any of the members – including leaders all the way to the Prophet. My faith now is stronger than the knowledge I thought I had earlier in my life, so I can tell you it’s worth it.

1. What do you mean by “reconcilable”?

2. “Faith” in what?

[Anonymous]

Jordan Turner wrote:

These issues are reconcilable.

1. What do you mean by “reconcilable”?

2. What issues?

3. Reconcilable with what?

KM

[Anonymous]

kupord maizzed wrote:

Jordan Turner wrote:

These issues are reconcilable.

1. What do you mean by “reconcilable”?

2. What issues?

3. Reconcilable with what?

KM

Good question.

Many times, not always, someone’s faith is ‘fine’ when some sort of information or event propels them into a world of disillusionment, anger. What I mean above is that we do not have to live with anger and disillusionment forever. There is a place of reconciliation, resolution within the church even after having gone through this process. Such has been my experience.

I do NOT mean that these disillusioning issues are always resolvable in the apologetic sense or that orthodoxy always wins. But more that they are resolvable with an expansion of thinking.

People may decide to leave the church or stay, and I’m happy for whatever one decides. What I want to prevent is uncomplicated thinking, or throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Often people come across new information and are so disheartened that they leave angry. I believe that these moments of doubt and frustration are golden moments for the expansion of consiousness.

My experience, for example, taught me something about history. I was so sure of our church’s unspotted history until I came across certain stains. Then I was so sure our history was tainted, unreliable. Well, the more I’ve studied, waited, and wondered, I’ve learned to never be sure about history. So much is unknowable. Antimormons are right and wrong. Apologists are right and wrong.

This was tremendous growth for me. I was freed from black and white thinking (when it came to history, at least). I was not able to make an honest decision to leave or stay based on history because it is too ambiguous. Instead I had to expand my thinking and make such a decision based on deeper reasoning. Christ, scripture, goodness, family, community, faith – all of which are debatable, but deeper.

So, staying in the church is not always the right answer, of course. But I do think most initial disillusioning issues are resolvable with an expansion of consiousness.

[Anonymous]

Jordan Turner wrote:

But I do think most initial disillusioning issues are resolvable with an expansion of consiousness.

Certainly anger is resolvable, at the least. And to the extent the issues at the surface are really personal growth issues, it would seem we would want to resolve them. Thanks.

KM

[Anonymous]

To me “reconcilable” simply means “able to be viewed in a way that brings peace” – even if that peace means something is seen as wrong in the end. I might classify this as finding a way to see something charitably – or in a way that doesn’t produce anger or snobbery or condemnation.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

To me “reconcilable” simply means “able to be viewed in a way that brings peace” – even if that peace means something is seen as wrong in the end. I might classify this as finding a way to see something charitably – or in a way that doesn’t produce anger or snobbery or condemnation.

love that.

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