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200 close friendships? Man, I’m lonely. Guess it depends on what close means. Quote:200 close friendships? Man, I’m lonely. Guess it depends on what close means.
Yup.
I definitely do not have two hundred. I include it as an over optimistic estimate. When I first moved to this city, I worked out I was essentially dealing with a new circle of people more or less every two years. Not having much family, and having to start socially again every few months was horrible. Now I have a stable circle of friends in and out of the church but it was difficult.
Orson wrote:Forgotten_Charity wrote:Studies have shown that people have a built in “not my tribe” DNA detector.
Speaking of tribes in recent years I have made a conscious effort to think of the entire human race as “my tribe.” We are all children of God after all, sure our backgrounds give us superficial divisions but it has given me a new perspective in many ways. It has been an enlightening exercise, I find it more difficult to be persuaded by the local rhetoric and “us vs. them” mentality when I try to hold this perspective. It can drive my local tribe nutty.
Orson, I love this thought. I have a new goal. This really speaks to my Spirit. Thank you.
Unknown, I have had the same questions. Just last Sunday I received another powerful witness of Christ and His mission. I don’t mean to “bear my testimony” here – I just want to say that I have gone from having a strong testimony of Christ to having serious doubts to having a strong testimony again. I believe I have been blessed with a gift: “To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world” (D&C 46:13). Maybe you have, too, since you said your relationship with Christ “has felt real.” I hope you get through this okay because it “would be the hardest thing to let go of.”
While firmly believing in Christ, I am dubious about the second coming. The discussion recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 does not seem to refer to an event outside of the first century AD.
Some disciples are checking out the temple and surrounding building and the Lord tells them “there shall not be left one stone upon another.” So the disciples ask, “when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
Then Jesus covered the following:
-Don’t be deceived by false people coming in His name
-Wars and rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, signs in heaven, etc.
-Disciples with be persecuted, beaten, thrown in prison, etc.
-Many will be offended, betray each other, and hate each other
-False prophets
-The gospel will “be preached in all the world” (only Matthew mentions this)
-The abomination of desolation and destruction of Jerusalem
-More false Christs and false prophets
-More signs and wonders
Matthew’s record states that Christ will come “
Immediatelyafter the tribulation of those days ” and Mark’s states it will happen “ in those days, after that tribulation.” They are clearly referring to the time immediately after or closely following the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred around 70 AD. Luke says “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” and then Christ will come. I just don’t see how those chapters can refer to anything happening after the first century AD, unless Luke meant “Jerusalem shall be trodden down” for a couple thousand years. Prophesies can be fulfilled more than once and those chapters may refer to two time periods, but I don’t see enough evidence for that argument.
So, why the heck are we taught that Matthew 24 (Mark’s and Luke’s accounts are mostly ignored) is about a second coming in our time!?
I feel like this is the hardest part for me right now. When I had my first faith crisis, I read Jesus the Christ for the first time and suddenly everything was a ok. Then, husband had his crisis, and now my crisis has been a lot more-more intellectual, more emotional (and not) hard to explain. I think that’s it’s easier considering the church isn’t true, or the only truth because I don’t feel like my marriage would fall apart if I left. Bit I keep coming back to Christ. I feel a testimony there. I can’t shake it. Other times I wonder if god exists. I heard a quote that in the second coming ” every knee shall now and every tongue confess, that Jesus is the Christ”. I’ve always had that stick with me especially because when I heard it (at efy no less) the man teaching it suggested that it didn’t mean everyone would suddenly confess the mormon church was true, but rather, Christ would transcend a church organization. It comes down to good vs. evil in a way. I’ve felt a lot of peace come from this in my FT this time around.
God, should he exist, has purposefully hidden himself and because if this, faith is key. Because of this I don’t feel guilty that I can’t say “I know Christ lives” because he didn’t intend that I should be able to say that. I do hope he exists, and I hope he embodies everything good I believe to good. I hope it all does transcend us vs them thinking and that everything I view bad in this church becomes manifest. Most importantly, I think that should god exist, he won’t be so petty or vain to think that we disavowed his existence, so much as he will be happy to know we were good people and did good things, especially given the idea he did t provide us good, solid evidence that he exists. A rip in the veil if you will. We can come to know God regardless of if we literally believe in God.
Side not: I used to be so excited for the second coming. It was my favorite topic in the church. Maybe because it was all the prophecies of something supernatural in our very ordinary world. Now, I just don’t know. And oddly, right now, I’m ok with not knowing.
The Second Coming isn’t theologically important. It is, at best, a glorious “I Told You So” moment, where the wicked get what’s coming to them. So, it makes us feel good that we will eventually get our’s. I had a friend in my youth who was heckled by the dopers on the way to seminary. He turned and said gleefully, “I’ll see you on Judgment Day!” He eventually wound up in jail for burglary, but that is neither here nor there.
The Second Coming is like the Afterlife. These both are somewhere over the distant horizon. IMO, we should live the way we think is right for today, not for some unknowable future.
During the First Coming, Jesus is recorded as having taught about a Kingdom of God… here… now… on the earth. When that didn’t come to fruition as well as the later disciples expected it should have, they pushed the Kingdom of God to a Second Coming, then to an Afterlife. The farther we have gotten since the time of Jesus, the farther away into the future we have pushed the Kingdom of God concept. JS, re-instituted a sense of urgency in building Zion here on the earth, but just like second-generation Christians, we have pushed Zion to a later, Second Coming concept since it didn’t happen as well as the early LDS adherents believed.
On Own Now wrote:The Second Coming is like the Afterlife. These both are somewhere over the distant horizon. IMO, we should live the way we think is right for today, not for some unknowable future.
Amen.Seriously, how long has Christ been coming soon? At least a couple millennia. We’ve heard the GAs back off on the idea that any current “chosen” generation might see it. Likewise, in the first coming the Jews didn’t recognize it in part because it wasn’t what they were looking for or expecting.
Love your neighbor and believe in Christ – all the rest really doesn’t matter much.
All scriptures get reinterpreted to apply to a later date when they don’t happen in the most obvious time – and that isn’t limited to Christianity. Also, all events get retrofitted to an earlier prophecy / prediction whenever possible. It’s what we humans do.
So, I take from those statements anything I want and ignore the rest. With regard to the Second Coming, I figure each and every one of us will die at some point, so I figure that will be our Second Coming. That allows me to focus on the here and now and establishing Zion over waiting fearfully or gleefully for some future judgment.
Old-Timer wrote:All scriptures get reinterpreted to apply to a later date when they don’t happen in the most obvious time – and that isn’t limited to Christianity. Also, all events get retrofitted to an earlier prophecy / prediction whenever possible.
It’s what we humans do.
So, I take from those statements anything I want and ignore the rest.
Ray, I believe you nailed it, and it’s depressing to me. As time goes on, my confidence in past and present prophets decreases.Shawn, fwiw, it actually inspires me, since I see it as liberating and empowering. My life, right now, is more important than past and future events – and that means a lot to me.
Old-Timer wrote:Shawn, fwiw, it actually inspires me, since I see it as liberating and empowering.
My life, right now, is more important than past and future events – and that means a lot to me.
This. Interpreting someone’ else voice instead of finding what helps you in this life which causes you to interpret things the way you need in order to make it through. The last thing an adult needs to grow is dependence. It sucks, but part of growing up is experimenting with ideas and finding out what works. We aren’t ever absolved from that. Focusing on the second coming is like getting your DNA test results back and focusing on your sure to come genetic cancer. It takes away from living, and takes away from making the best decisions now and the foreseeable future. The joy in life all but stops when we are not living in the present and focusing on what we can do instead of what we wish we could do.
The predictions of the future appear to be no make domain. Generic predictions that can be looked at a variety of different ways until it fits a view of validity. Knowing the future can and often does cause a person to be lost like in the past instead of the present. Like the person that knows he will get cancer because his genetics DNA test show it. Focusing too much on the past and future leaves the present out to dry. Where good acts should be happening, but can’t if we lose focus on the present.
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