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My husband and I had a very intense and painful argument the other day. We were talking about the time he was in medical school and our kids were 13, 11, and 5. Money was tight and I worked full time. I often had to put my oldest son in charge of the younger ones because my husband had to study all the time and we had no money for a sitter. I felt like a married single as I hardly ever got to see my husband and also had most of the child raising and homemaking responsiblities. It was a stressful time for the whole family. My kids needed their dad but the only time they got to see him was when he had to discipline them for something. During this difficult time, he was called to be the Elders Quorum President. My husband equated ‘church callings’ with putting God first. People from the ward would call him at all times of the night and it became too much for our family. My oldest son got so upset he wrote a letter to the bishop and asked him to release his dad from this calling or his parents would divorce. The bishop immeadiately released him, but the damage to our family had already been done. My oldest son did a suicide attempt at this time. My daughter got caught for shop lifting at the mall and was acting out. Our intimate life was non-existent. During our argument, I told my husband that I did not believe that accepting callings in the church was putting “God First.” I told him that I believed that ‘church callings’ was putting ‘others first’ and that the church taught that family came before others. I also expressed that putting ‘God first’ meant that you took the time to put prayer, and scripture study in your life to nourish yourself first with God, and then your family came second. Well, my husband was defensive and told me that the church sent married men on missions at one time and women learned to sacrifice and that I should have been stronger and not got all upset so that my oldest son wouldn’t have written that letter to the bishop to have him released. Well, I was seeing ‘red’ by then and said, “First of all, I don’t think the bishopric should have given you that calling knowing you were in medical school and I was working. Second, you knew the problems our kids and myself was having with you being gone all the time and should have never accepted that calling.” Well, that did not go over well and my husband got very angry. He started telling me that I never let things go and that he did what he thought was best at the time. It is true, that I have trouble letting things go. But, it really hurts that my husband never apologizes to me or the kids when he has done something wrong. I told my husband that I just wished that when he recognizes that he made a mistake he would just apologize to me or the kids. For some reason, some people just can’t seem to do that and it puts a big emotional distance and disconnect between me and them.
So, my question for you all is, “What does putting the kingdom of God first or loving God with all your heart, might, and strength, first mean?
This was discussed recently in PH meeting. I’m in a goofy branch no doubt, but it didn’t surprise me that I was the only person who argued that the church believes families are more important than callings. The old codgers where pretty firm that our loyalties should go: Church, family, country. I said that if we really believe in our Mormon doctrine, it should go family,
GOD, church, country. Nope. —- First off in mormondom, there is no difference between god and church, and all I heard was stories from the 1800’s of men leaving their families and going on five year missions, and how god will take care of the family if a person is gone serving the church, and how blessed they will be for magnifying their callings. I questioned if we should be using these examples in our day – but of course no one going to listen to me.
I don’t know what to tell you BN. I believe that family is more important than church, but I can’t say that the church membership believes it or teaches it. I think the prophets have done a better job stressing that message in the last 20 years – but the people won’t listen.
Thank you Cwald. I really appreciate your reply. My husband is a good man and I truly believe that he thought that serving in this calling God would take care of his family for it. This is why I can move on most of the time and forgive. It just still hurts once in awhile when some conversation comes up to trigger it because of family was not alright. Our kids needed their dad and I needed a husband. Sometimes people do not understand how hard medical school is. So on one hand you get the quote from David O McKay (I think) that says, “No success can compensate for failure in the home.” But, I know so many families in the church now who suffered because of their callings. I was thinking this morning of what it means to love God (let alone with all your heart might and strength). I gave my all on my mission and it was very discouraging. But, you cannot love someone you do not know. We have an image of who God or Jesus is and we try to love that image, but it is hard sometimes. We are also told that the the Kingdom of God is within us and not necessarily the church. I have felt the love of God at times and that makes me love him, but we have only so much energy in a day and have to decide where to put it.
Wow Bridget, that McKay quote brings an entirely new light when applied to callings. To me personally putting God first means seeking truth, love, and goodness above all else. As far as time commitments – family needs should be met first. I do accept that sacrifice at times can be a good thing. Sacrificing a fun activity day to do meaningful service can be a good lesson in selflessness, but not at the expense of basic needs. Cwald, your experience makes me glad my stake is very vocal about how we need to prioritize our time. The order is: Family, employment, church callings, personal interests. When employment demands already interfere with some family needs major allowances are made for callings. Of course some members still choose to sacrifice more for their callings.
I agree Orson. The thing is, my dad had a powerful testimony, very active in the church and lots of callings, but my sister and I never felt he put his callings before us and that is why I never resented the church. If my dad had made an appointment with us girls to go to the drive-in and his HT companion suddenly called to go home teaching he would always explain that he would not cancel the appointment with his girls. That was very powerful for me to hear at 12 years old. I think my husband sometimes used callings to avoid family problems and therefore my resentment would be at him at times. It is a difficult balance and we could use the Holy Spirit during these times. I agree with Orson — putting God first is about seeking virtue and godlike character — not putting the Church first. There was a time in the Church when the attitude was “look after your Church calling and God will look after your family”. I ran into a man on my mission who subscribed to that philosophy in his family-rearing years and lost them as far as spirituality went. He regretted it in a conversation to me. I never forgot that.
Remember this — the people you served alongside in the Church, the leaders who called you etcetera will forget you. I doubt the people I served alongside with 10 years ago ever think about me now. But my wife — she remembers how in the early years of our marriage everything was more important than her. That’s part of her attitude toward our marriage — that I always seemed to put her last in those days. My daughter came into me lamenting that I did that a lot the year before I was released and prior to.
Now, my priorities are:
Relationship with God
Relationship with Wife and Children
Work
Personal fulfilment and renewal
Church callings [a distant fifth]
I learned my lesson when it became glaringly obvious that the leaders above me didn’t care one iota about the personal sacrifices I was making, or the mental anguish I was experiencing in my last leadership calling. And they KNEW, because we had a conversation about it a couple years previously and sort of insisted that I continue in the calling. They even gave me a blessing that I would be able to continue in the calling a year into it. And when I asked to be released, they took it in a very negative way and dragged their feet, kept me in the dark for four months before anyone did anything definitive. It was terrible.
No, from now on, I will dedicate time to the Church after I have my personal, family, and self-renewal activities taken care of.
Our former Bishop did it right. When he was a Ward Exec Sec, it was hard to get him to do things that were time consuming. I was a bit frustrated as a leader because he was capable and talented, but put pretty strict limits on his time.
Then he retired. He then was called as a Bishop and dedicated a huge amount of time to that calling. He did the calling when it fit his life (in retirement) to give the amount of time it demanded. No sacrificing your mental health, your physical health, your family health for the Kingdom of God. You end up losing the Kingdom of God in the process, and are left with nothing.
I believe now the Kingdom of God is found in the Zion-like relationships we have with our family members, the peace in our home, and in our hearts. And if Church service is more demanding than we can shoulder, then it’s time to step back and take charge of the situation.
Bridget — I too struggle with letting go. I don’t know what it is, but reflecting on the DIRT that has happened to me in my life provides a temporary mental payoff, almost like a drug fix. I don’t know where I developed it. But like drug fixes and other forms of short-term peace-getters, it leaves you barren and wasted eventually. In my case, in a sea of unhappiness. This morning I was absolutely seething over how I was fired from a part-time job a while ago when I was given the short end of the stick and only stood up for myself. I actually felt the blood pressure rising and my daughter said “What are you angry about, you look like THIS [makes angry face]”.
Learning to control your thinking about these negative things is the key, in my view to moving past them. I share this only because I have the same issue. I frequent a different forum that has Mormons on it (TBM’s), and one woman made some comments I really admire about how she can’t stay mad at people for long, and she ended with this quote which brings me peace.
“Forgiveness is letting go of any hope for a better past”.
Oh my Gosh SD!! Thank you so much for posting this. It is so wonderful when someone understands you. YOU understand me. You good people on this group make me feel like “I am not Crazy.” Weaknesses, yes, but you affirm that I am a pretty reasonable, intelligent woman. God knows we are not superhuman and can only handle so much. Unfortunately, others do not know us well enough and just try to get the jobs they want done, filled. Hugs, Bridget Oh, and I love that last quote SD! In the latest training on the new Church Handbook of Instructions, it was said EXPLICITLY that the Church is meant to serve the family – not the other way around. It was stated just about as directly and forcefully as is possible to say it – and it was Elder Packer who said it (in case the people in cwald’s branch want to play he said / she said authority games :crazy: ).“The Church” has been saying this for years, very directly. Getting local leaders to accept it in the crunch of filing assignments and staffing units is the rub – and even that was addressed in the same CHI training. It also was said EXPLICITLY that units who can’t staff all the traditional callings can leave some of them unfilled and consolidate when necessary.
God, country and The Marine Corps! … oh wait, wrong forum and I am not a Marine. 🙂 Sorry about your argument and experience Bridget.
To me, this is the list of priority:
1. Self
If you don’t have a well to draw from, you have nothing to give others. Think about it. Even on an airline flight, in case of emergency, they explicitly tell you to put YOUR OWN MASK ON FIRST before helping those around you. Why? Because you are no use to anyone, especially your loved ones in the seat next to you, if you black out.
I know my prioritization appears selfish on the surface, but I really do mean it in the pure spirit of charity — being strong so you can in fact serve others. Christ was strong, not weak. He used his strength to serve all the rest of humanity.
2. Children
3. Spouse
4. Church / Others
5. God
He’s a big boy. He can take care of him self.
To actually address the question of priorities, I immediately think of the following: Quote:When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
Seems like our scriptures say that our priority ought to be each other – and that “seek ye first the kingdom of God” fits more into serving others as Jesus served (actually working with the poor and oppressed to alleviate their situations) than into a missionary mindset. After all, that appears to be what Jesus’ mission was while he was alive. “The Church” was established only after he died – as a way of trying to continue what he started.
Bridget, I hear you. I think I mentioned once before that when I was a seminary teacher once upon a time, I had free run of the ward library and took the liberty to take home and watch most of the church-produced VHS tapes in there. There was one starring Johnny Whitaker (remember him?) as a kid who’s dad was the bishop. The video seemed to be an anthem for kids who’s dad’s were in leadership positions to get the message to get used to the idea that they would never see their dads again, and that since it was all about building up the Kingdom of God on Earth, they should put on a big smile and quit whining. That particular video hasn’t been re-released on DVD. Surprise. Things have changed a lot since then, but — and this is one of my biggest complaints about the church — it’s always only implied that there was a change. Sometimes it’s a big honkin’ nudge, but nobody — NOBODY — will come out and say it at face value that things have changed, and that the stuff we used to teach was either wrong or is no longer applicable. I can only guess why that is, but I think it leaves people confused, and since we have such a history of lauding those in the early church who made huge sacrifices, a lot of people will think “hey, it’s my turn to do that. I’ll show God what I’m really made of.” And there you have it.
BTW, if you haven’t already, I’d recommend reading
A New Earth(Tolle). It’s been a big help for me in dealing with the kind of conflict you describe. In response to Ray’s comment — when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God…and that this implies looking after each other is important and top of the list. I agree — but the BoM indicates we should not run faster than we have strength, so having self-renewal activities is important — and sometimes that means putting yourself first. When I’m serving to the point I resent it, or find it’s affecting my mental health or happiness, it’s time to go back into the reservoir.
bridget_night wrote:Oh my Gosh SD!! Thank you so much for posting this. It is so wonderful when someone understands you. YOU understand me. You good people on this group make me feel like “I am not Crazy.” Weaknesses, yes, but you affirm that I am a pretty reasonable, intelligent woman. God knows we are not superhuman and can only handle so much. Unfortunately, others do not know us well enough and just try to get the jobs they want done, filled. Hugs, Bridget
Thanks. It is nice to know that others have similar perspectives and want to overcome them. It’s the overcoming that is the hard part. I’ve been trying for many, many years, and it’s this one characteristic which is the biggest single obstacle to my full-fledged activity in the Church (not just outward activity — but actually leading and serving with my heart).
I’ve noticed that in these threads here, that you share some of the defining experiences you’ve had — the Bishop who made you feel like a bad person when you expressed doubts and sent the “Why people leave the Church video”, the elder on your mission that demanded obedience simply because he held the priesthood, for example. I too feel this need to share the less positive things that happen to me for some reason — and I feel the need to do it over and over again. I think people get sick of me and just ignore it after a while. My wife does in all her longsuffering and I eventually relive the experiences alone.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I did read a book by Ellsworth and Ellsworth called “Getting to Know the Real You” that talks about sighting the right targets in our thinking, and it helped me for a while when I was younger. But my spirit/thinking takes constant maintenance and discipline to prevent it from slipping back into those negative experiences and letting them overtake my mind; I empathize, and hope you can overcome your own version of it successfully.
The good news is that yes, we’re normal people. I thrive in my work and my family roles and have a few good friends. You probably have your own strengths you could name… So, just because we struggle with our own versions of this particular challenge, doesn’t mean we are somehow crazy. I hope it’s biological as I postulated in one thread a while ago.
I did take anti-depressants for three weeks when I sunk into my first and only dark period which started threatening my functioning, and it was amazing what some meds did for me — negative triggers in my thinking were dismissed easily after the meds pulled me out of the pit for quite a while. I haven’t used them since, but I hope that a perfect, resurrected body (in case that is in the cards) this one weakness will be much easier to control. It may not even exist at that time; I have hope. But until then, it’s my responsibility to control and overcome….
Thanks for sharing your own thoughts earlier in this thread.
Bridget — here is a quote from someone who described how they are able to let go of things easily. I thought it had some interesting comments in it…. Quote:I think part of it is simply my personality. I’m very laid-back, very “whatever”, and even when I lose my temper or become otherwise impassioned it burns hot and fast to get my emotions out of the way before calming down.
I also don’t like the way I feel when I’m mad at people. I tend to obsess, and that’s all I can think about. It’s better to push those feelings away and deal with the facts of the situation.
I did have a college roommate with whom I fought constantly. For awhile, I did feel very hateful toward her. And then one day… it just stopped. I will never be bosom buddies with her, but I don’t think of her as anyone but just a lousy roommate I once had.
I also believe that people are human and prone to mistakes. I also know not everyone is going to like me. I also believe most people are not getting at me but merely using me to get out other frustrations. Chances are, they are going to feel bad about it. They might not come right out and apologize, but chances are they will feel bad.
Now keep in mind I”m capable of chewing someone out. A few months back, my sister got into a huge fight with a mutual friend. All facts considered, I sided with my sister and told this guy so. We exchanged some Facebook messages, then he promptly unfriended me.
It was rather awkward, because the next day was a dual missionary homecoming/farewell of two more mutual friends. Meeting was… awkward. But after a few minutes, we were able to chat it up like anything without a single mention of what had happened the day before. I did later apologize for some of my choice words, but I also don’t feel I held a grudge, just was saying it like it was.
The thing is… you just can’t expect perfection from everyone. You have to get over it. God did not command us to hold grudges but to forgive. Why ruin perfectly good friendships over little things?
Also… if my friend who was raped as a child can eventually come to decent terms with her rapist (after he was of course punished), why can’t I let things go?
I also heard an excellent quote a while back…
“Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.”
She is the source of the quote you liked above…
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