- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
A bishop once said that church service is a lot of hard work with flashes of light occasionally. Well, I had a flash of light.
After our Ward Council dropped the ball on our Teachers Council meetings two times in a row, I sent an email asking the Bpric to encourage the Ward council to be proactive in getting teachers to our Teachers’ Council (TC). I followed up with the Bpric the week before our last TC. They announced it for two Sundays in Sacrament meeting, but on the day-of the council, forgot to tell everyone the room number. There has been confusion about that in the past…so I mouthed the room number Really Really Widely from my seat in Sacrament meeting, while pointing in the direction of the room.
This caught the 2nd Counselor’s attention (in the Bpric) and he added the room number to his announcement. Save…
So, we had two sessions of 4 people. Here are the good things. The teachers in the first session (there are two on each Sunday the TC is held) were open about their weaknesses as teachers. One said they were really not good at formulating good questions. This was significant because I had devoted an entire council to that topic previouly — a few months ago. So she felt, after that lesson, she was not good at it. That showed progress and impact.
So, she is coming to our next meeting with questions for her RS lesson that she will pose to the class. She also asked me about how to engage her class of 2nd graders in public education (she is a supply teacher), and the primary teachers gave advice. The council will give their impressions of the questions, with suggestions for improvement if necessary.
One woman rushes through the lesson thinking she has to cover every scrap of information in the manual. The council all gave their perceptions of how to “filter” out the lesson material to get to what is suitable for the particular class. The teacher sort of fought the advice, but in the end seemed to accept that she should teach (a) what she personally feels excited to teach b) what is at or slightly above the level of the class c) what is likely to create a spiritual experience and d) is what the class needs.
Yet another teacher agreed to teach the class about how to use technology in the classroom — phone-based voting and quiz app, and a Powerpoint Jeopardy concept for use with youth and even adults. Everyone was excited about that.
And then, when I attended High Priest Group, this regular teacher who, in my view, is rather remedial (very boring, with canned, manual based questions that are really lame) surprised me. He’d attended the TC on how to ask engaging questions.
He opened up our lesson with “Why, in spite of righteous living, do we experience so many bad things in our lives?” He went on to talk about his son who was born blind, a ward leader who has cancer, etcetera. All very engaging statements, although saddening.
He got the indicator you had asked a good question — the class is silent for a while — like they are trying to multiply 465 X 761 in their heads. And then people came out with really thoughtful responses. He had obviously applied the criteria of a good question — short, open-ended, at or slightly above the level of the class.
Anyway — we seem to have made a difference after six months of this now. I am feeling pressure to do more in those TC’s to practice what I preach.
I’m glad to hear you’re making some progress in your class. It’s interesting that many teachers are concerned with asking good questions. I wonder whether the desire is to ask the perfect question or to generate any type of discussion. It can be tough to generate discussion in our lessons.
Glad to hear you’re making progress. For those few the program seems to be working. I was a little sad to hear that so few attended, actually. We get more than that in my tiny-should-be-a-branch ward. Anyway, i think good questions are very important, and to go along with that teachers need to be patient in waiting for responses. A few things are going on when a question is asked, especially in the church setting. Some are multiplying 465×761, some don’t want to be the first to respond, some are afraid their answer might not be right or accepted (particularly if Primary answers are the expectation and the manual questions seem to want Primary answers), some don’t want to share personal experiences or feelings, some don’t really know the answer (and some think they know the answers to everything), etc. But I think it’s important to let that “uncomfortable silence” be – it will resolve itself if the teacher doesn’t feel the need to jump in with the textbook (Primary) answer. I also think it’s good to ask questions that are not in the manual, especially as follow up to what people are already contributing.
I’ve actually thought about starting a “teacher council” thread here for input. For example, I’d really like to know how to get people who are assigned a GC talk for a lesson (i.e. fourth Sundays) to use that as a resource and not just read the talk. I can read, and apparently so can everyone else in HPG, and I probably heard the talk. What I’d like (at least sometimes) is insight into the talk topic and not just the “teacher’s” take.
SilentDawning wrote:
And then, when I attended High Priest Group,this regular teacherwho, in my view, is rather remedial (very boring, with canned, manual based questions that are really lame) surprised me.He’d attended the TC on how to ask engaging questions. He opened up our lesson with “Why, in spite of righteous living, do we experience so many bad things in our lives?” He went on to talk about his son who was born blind, a ward leader who has cancer, etcetera. All very engaging statements, although saddening.
He got the indicator you had asked a good question — the class is silent for a while — like they are trying to multiply 465 X 761 in their heads. And then people came out with really thoughtful responses. He had obviously applied the criteria of a good question — short, open-ended, at or slightly above the level of the class..
I love this example because I get the feel that he’ll never go back. It seems like he just needed the nudge, the permission to be real.
Just getting people to have discussions and talk about stuff makes a difference. So good job for getting the dialogues going. And I’m sure it feels good to contribute. People seem to really respond to you and in your area…that is long overdue. You have contributions that make a difference. Thanks for sharing.
nibbler wrote:I’m glad to hear you’re making some progress in your class.
It’s interesting that many teachers are concerned with asking good questions.
I wonder whether the desire is to ask the perfect question or to generate any type of discussion. It can be tough to generate discussion in our lessons. Why I am considering this a minor success is because I focused an entire lesson on the importance of good questions. In the class, I gave them a lot of those text-rich, dense passages you get in Priesthood and other manuals, and asked them to reverse engineer questions from those passages. I was surprised how hard that was for them to do that. Many had a lot of trouble. The fact they are bringing it up again now is encouraging because it means they took it to heart.
Their motive is to generate discussion in the class. They all know that…
Quote:I love this example because I get the feel that he’ll never go back. It seems like he just needed the nudge, the permission to be real.
I think many teachers are like that — we are so structured, that people feel they have to stick to the lesson manual. The problem is that it doesn’t allow the teachers to share of themselves, to teach with passion etcetera. I hope he keeps doing it. I felt he was a different person up there this time.
DarkJedi wrote:
I’ve actually thought about starting a “teacher council” thread here for input. For example, I’d really like to know how to get people who are assigned a GC talk for a lesson (i.e. fourth Sundays) to use that as a resource and not just read the talk. I can read, and apparently so can everyone else in HPG, and I probably heard the talk. What I’d like (at least sometimes) is insight into the talk topic and not just the “teacher’s” take.I would support such a thread. I think one suggestion for getting people to teach a GC talk effectively is to give them a few pointers.
a) Teach the Main Idea of the talk. Let it point in a certain direction without giving you details, turn-by-turn steps (the actual talk content).
b) Teach the parts that really resonate with you as a teacher.
c) reverse engineer questions from the talk. Get the class’s responses and then do a big reveal about what the GA said — his perspective on it.
d) Feel free to research the topic outside of the talk.
e) Substitute the GA’s personal experiences with your own, if you have them.
SilentDawning wrote:DarkJedi wrote:
I’ve actually thought about starting a “teacher council” thread here for input. For example, I’d really like to know how to get people who are assigned a GC talk for a lesson (i.e. fourth Sundays) to use that as a resource and not just read the talk. I can read, and apparently so can everyone else in HPG, and I probably heard the talk. What I’d like (at least sometimes) is insight into the talk topic and not just the “teacher’s” take.I would support such a thread. I think one suggestion for getting people to teach a GC talk effectively is to give them a few pointers.
a) Teach the Main Idea of the talk. Let it point in a certain direction without giving you details, turn-by-turn steps (the actual talk content).
b) Teach the parts that really resonate with you as a teacher.
c) reverse engineer questions from the talk. Get the class’s responses and then do a big reveal about what the GA said — his perspective on it.
d) Feel free to research the topic outside of the talk.
e) Substitute the GA’s personal experiences with your own, if you have them.
I think these are excellent suggestions, SD, and things I do or would do when teaching such a lesson (I don’t do much of “e”). I think my real issue is not when I am assigned to teach lessons because I never am assigned. We have a fourth Sunday teacher and I am not in the group leadership. Nor am I in the SS “leadership” (I can’t call my ward SS presidency leaders). So pulling the guy aside and saying “Hey, I think this lesson might be better if….” is really out of the question, and that is also partly because I can’t stand the guy and he’s not all that crazy about me either. So maybe what I’m asking more about wold be is there a way as a class participant to sort of redirect the lesson say after the first few paragraphs are read? In a broader sense, are there some strategies in general class participants can use broaden the discussion and get away from just reading through the talk (or manual lesson)?
Good discussions usually come from good questions. Some teachers are better at these than others. However, the teacher isn’t the only person who can ask them. On rare occasion, I’ve seen questions from class members spark a great discussion, and I see no reason why this can’t happen more often, especially if you prepare some questions ahead of time. SD- Congratulations. You have prevailed and the entire church needs what you have to offer. Hooray for your little corner of the world. ydeve wrote:Good discussions usually come from good questions. Some teachers are better at these than others. However, the teacher isn’t the only person who can ask them. On rare occasion, I’ve seen questions from class members spark a great discussion, and I see no reason why this can’t happen more often, especially if you prepare some questions ahead of time.
I agree, preparation in general and good questions are key. I have also seen a question by a class member take the discussion in a very good but sometimes different direction. In my particular situation (or the case I am referring to most often) the guy doesn’t really leave much room for questions. He reads (or asks someone to read) a few paragraphs, gives his particular “insight,” may or may not take other input (mostly not), and moves on to the next few paragraphs. He’s pretty good at shooting down discussion that doesn’t fit his view or isn’t going in the direction he prepared for. (“Thank you, now back to the talk, Elder Schmoe said….” or “We’re getting short on time and there’s other stuff Elder Schmoe said and I want to get through the whole talk/lesson….”) I actually don’t have an issue with him giving his point of view as long as others also are permitted to give their points of view or insights as well, even if they differ from his. My biggest thing is that I don’t need the whole talk/lesson read to me – I have been reading for over 50 years and I think I’m pretty good at it. I think part of the problem is that so many poor teachers have seen it done this way for so long that they think it’s the only way (or perhaps best way) to do it – when it really isn’t and actually stifles learning from one another.
DarkJedi wrote:So maybe what I’m asking more about wold be is there a way as a class participant to sort of redirect the lesson say after the first few paragraphs are read? In a broader sense, are there some strategies in general class participants can use broaden the discussion and get away from just reading through the talk (or manual lesson)?
As a teacher, I never like it when people do this from the motive of hijacking the lesson. I had one or two people do it over the years when they felt I was digressing, but in my view, digressions are a good thing if they meet the needs of the class, make class interesting, and are contained.
In terms of advice about how to broaden up the lesson or make it different, you can ask questions but if the teacher doesn’t encourage the class do then pick up on the question, your question is dismissed, or marginalized, there isn’t much you can do. Or the teacher might allow a couple people to entertain the question before moving on..about which, again, you can do nothing.
I guess, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve accepted that I can’t change people very much — unless they want to be changed. I can’t step into existing power structures if they don’t want me there. But, you CAN create new structures — new wine in new bottles — I have done that many times now.
So, the only thought I have is to encourage your Bpric/Ward Council to start their own Teacher’s Council if they don’t already have one, and encourage the Ward council to open it up to people like this brother you are referring to. Make it easy for them by doing some of the thinking for them, like getting materials together on how it runs, and recommending a TC facilitator. Maybe you could even be one?
Share with the teacher’s council leader what you perceive to be some of the needs of the ward in terms of teacher improvement, and see if it can be put on the agenda. I know that’s a lot of work, what I just suggested, but its part of “proactive personality” — a trait I’ve been studying in my student-related studies now. People with proactive personality tend to work on the context in which they find themselves, to change it in ways that achieve their objectives.
Since the relationship between you and this person is not great, then I don’t see direct influence from you doing much. But creating an environment where this teacher can face some of these issues, with guidance from an experienced teacher, is something within your power. Again, a lot of work, but I started an entire organization 1.5 years ago when people blocked what I wanted in another organization I helped start to achieve some of my own objectives, with success. I guess it depends on how important this particularly issue is to you. And if you focus on the larger good (improving teaching in general in your Ward) this becomes even a higher purpose level.
I know audience members can push discussions into certain places, but ultimately, the teacher has the power to water, or kill that line of discussion if s/he wants.
Every ward is supposed to have a teacher council, SD, and ours just got going last month. They have had one so far, although I think today was supposed to be the second (church was abbreviated to SM only because of weather here, and I didn’t go at all). The guy in my ward should attend because he teaches SS and once a month in PH. He could go either way, actually – he could go because it’s his “duty” or he could not go because he thinks he’s a better teacher than everybody else as it is and they have nothing to offer him (ignoring that he might have something to offer them). I’d bet on the former, though. The coordinator they called is a good guy and a good teacher – I would have chosen him above anyone else in the ward. He probably does recognize the issue, but he also likely has bigger fish to fry. HCs in our stake are encouraged to go to the councils in whatever ward we’re in when they happen to have one, but that’s part of the problem. I wouldn’t have been in my ward anyway today and it’s pretty hit and miss as to when they are where. That said, the problem is bigger than just this guy. Almost everybody in my quorum would teach the TFOT lesson the same way – read the talk. And it’s not just my ward, I encounter it when traveling as well (as in last fourth Sunday in a different ward). In the end it’s really just a pet peeve but it does affect my church experience. I suppose that’s my problem.
DarkJedi wrote:
That said, the problem is bigger than just this guy. Almost everybody in my quorum would teach the TFOT lesson the same way – read the talk. And it’s not just my ward, I encounter it when traveling as well (as in last fourth Sunday in a different ward). In the end it’s really just a pet peeve but it does affect my church experience. I suppose that’s my problem.I addressed this on our last teachers council. We practiced reading passages and then coming up with questions that bore on the passage. I suggested the teacher gets everyone’s responses, and at the end, does a big REVEAL where they punctuate the discussion with the GA’s comment. Also, how to ask good follow up questions that extend a passage from the GA’s comment from the TFOT conference talk into a new area. To teach those parts that really excite you, and if there aren’t any, pull in exterior materials that bear on the main idea of the lesson. Use panel discussions, bring in guest speakers on the topic. Use personal experiences, or draw on the experiences of other people who you know in the class.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.