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This is probably a most irrelevant topic but its something that just bugs me. Joseph Smith “preached sermons”…Brigham Young refered to his “preaching” in the same terms, I believe. Jesus preached….but President Monson….yep….he “gives talks”.
When did we decide that “preaching a sermon” needed to be changed to “giving a talk”?
For example….I wonder what sort of looks I would get if I said that I was looking forward to hearing the sermons from the GA’s this conference…
We are indeed a strange bunch.
🙂 I agree, Bruce. I would love more good sermonizing in our meetings (at all levels). The ironic part is that there really are some good sermons given during General Conference – even during many of Pres. Monson’s “talks” – but they often get lost in the midst of our perception of them as talks. The timed-for-television pace and delivery method gets in the way, as well – but that’s another topic on its own.
Bruce, I agree that hearing a good sermon from the general and local leaders would be welcome a little more often. But as Ray says, I think there are some very good sermons already; we just don’t call them that. Elder Ballard gave a good sermon in April. We might called it a “talk” but it was a sermon. He gave very pointed instructions.
At a local level, when it’s just another ward member up there, I actually prefer talks to sermons. The basic reason is that I want to feel like the speaker and I are on equal footing, and that we are in this thing together, that we share common frailties, but that we also share common sources of courage… and that we can help each other on this pathway. A sermon from another ward member would be a little hard to swallow.
Now, if you want to be really irrelevant, I can throw my pet peeve out there. I can’t stand it when people go up to the pulpit and then read a talk they have written out word for word. Out of necessity, it’s done this way in general conference, but that’s a very poor model, and one we shouldn’t follow at the local level. Reading a speech is just the worst. I sometimes feel like shouting, “can you just email your speech to us and we can skim it later?”
Yep. I hesitate to quote Brigham Young, since no one listens to him anyway…but he said something to the effect that “you shouldn’t speak in church unless moved on by the spirit”.
The current corporate website even gives advice on how to “prepare” “talks”.
I’ve attended services at the AUB congregations here in Montana and they call members up to the podium during sacrament….no preparation…no d*** teleprompters…no notes…nothing. They just randomly call members up to speak.
The most sincere services I have ever attended. Very spiritual.
i have only one thing to say as choir director: Adam S. Bennion wrote:In the Church we need better music and more of it, and better speaking and less of it.
Amen, wayfarer. Bruce, I would love that type of service, generally. In the LDS Church, it’s called Testimony Meeting. Yeah, I know it’s not sermon-focused, but there are lots of members who would flounder and stop attending if they knew they might be called upon without warning to talk in front of the congregation for 5-40 minutes.
It’s a two-edged sword, and there are pros and cons to both edges. I don’t mind the current format at all; it’s the practical implementation and lack of focused training / encouragement that gets me more than anything else.
Having said that, I can say that I’ve heard more good talks over the years than bad ones – and more excellent ones than horrible ones. That ought to be recognized and acknowledged, imo – even if only to prove that the example of one of our more long-suffering participants in his little congregation is more the exception than the rule.
On Own Now wrote:I can’t stand it when people go up to the pulpit and then read a talk they have written out word for word. Out of necessity, it’s done this way in general conference, but that’s a very poor model, and one we shouldn’t follow at the local level. Reading a speech is just the worst. I sometimes feel like shouting, “can you just email your speech to us and we can skim it later?”
FWIW that rule could prohibit some personalities from speaking in church at all. Sometimes the best message they are capable of delivering comes from reading prepared thoughts word for word – where speaking off the cuff would appear incoherent and incomplete by comparison.
And I’m sure some personalities would much rather email their thoughts than get up in church to speak in public!
😆 Orson, True, there are many people that could not give a talk comfortably without reading it. I’m sympathetic with them, because it can be intimidating. I’m not suggesting that it be a rule that you can’t read a talk, merely that the majority of members seem to think that reading a talk is the only way it can be done. I once had a friend ask me for a copy of my talk after sacrament meeting. He seemed completely surprised when I told him I didn’t have it written down… as if the concept had never crossed his mind.
Maybe my bias is just that for someone of my age, who has been a life-long member, I was given plenty of opportunities for “public speaking” to the point where it is just no big deal. I’m not some kind of accomplished orator by any means, but being in front of people doesn’t “scare” me… not after giving prayers in front of my primary classmates, speaking in primary, giving the “Sacrament Gem”, giving “two and a half minute talks”, bearing my testimony, passing the sacrament, giving youth talks, conducting meetings, blessing the sacrament, including becoming comfortable with the inevitable mess-up and re-do, teaching lessons, delivering sacrament meeting talks, going on a mission where I had to give discussions, pray in public, speak in church, teach lessons, run district and zone meetings, contact people in the street… all in a foreign language, capped off with teaching adult-level sunday school and priesthood lessons… In fact, it’s one of the really cool parts of the church; we have plenty of opportunities to see and be seen, and learn how to handle that. So, it’s weird now, to have youth that speak maybe once a year, and adults that seem ill-at-ease speaking.
Obviously, there will be levels of comfort speaking, and for some, it really will be necessary to read a talk. But the goal… not the rule… but the goal, should be to give a “talk” that is more from the heart.
Suppose I were a accidentally called to be a bishopric member, and somehow got sustained while most ward members were out of town, and it fell on me to ask a member to give a “talk” and that person didn’t feel comfortable with public speaking. Rather than give an assigned topic, like chastity or the law of consecration, I’d ask them what is a part of the gospel that they really love or have personal experience with, and ask them to speak about that. I’d ask them to keep it personal, without memorizing or reading… and no long quotes. In deference to Bruce in Montana, my brief tenure in the bishopric would also include sometimes asking them to add some exhortation to their talk (which would make it a sermon), so long as they use terms like “we” and “us” and not “you” in their exhortations.
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