Seven Truths: How we relate to the Church

[Anonymous]

SEVEN TRUTHS: HOW WE RELATE TO THE CHURCH

By “HiJolly” at StayLDS.com

FIRST: God is in charge. There is an order to heaven and heavenly things. It is not typically limited as we are taught, or as we tend to think it is. If God wants someone ‘saved,’ then it is so. Our immature reasons and demands are irrelevant.

SECOND: The Church is a facilitator and an introduction to the realities of heaven. I personally believe it is the single best one on the earth today. Even so, it is not the reality itself. For every outward, physical ordinance (Baptism, Marriage, Priesthood, Endowment, etc.) in the Church, there is an inner, esoteric fulfillment to that ordinance. This is the true essence of the Gospel. Everything we see and do simply points to, promises, or leads us to the inner fulfillment.

THIRD: The weakness and limitations of the membership of the Church requires that administrative leaders generally come from the men and women that the body of the Church can respect and look up to, not from the most spiritually in tune or Godly Saints. Rarely, we get both types of leader in one individual. The rest of the time, pragmatism wins, by the will of the Lord.

FOURTH: The Church and the Gospel are not the same thing.

FIFTH: Everything we hear in Church, everything in General Conference, in the Ensign, etc. is what the temple endowment refers to as “the doctrines of men, mingled with scripture”. It is all hindered by the limitations of mortals struggling themselves to understand, even within the Church. The temple tells us where to get the ‘pure’ truth. There is only one source: True messengers from Father. How shall you know…?

SIXTH: The veil is big, and for good reasons. God freely allows us to misunderstand anything, even His own revelation to us. Our task is to have clean hands and pure hearts so the messages we receive are not distorted or confusing.

SEVENTH: There never will be a bigger, more important key to living life than faith. Period.

[Anonymous]

Thank you HiJolly! You created a wonderful summary of some of the complex ideas we approach here in our discussions. Your wisdom and clarity is a blessing.

I copied this to a new thread so I could post a link from the Additional Resources page of our website.

[Anonymous]

Amen! Thank you Hijolley.

[Anonymous]

Excellent summary. An insight from Harold B. Lee supports your position. “We have the standard Church works. Why do we call them standard? If there is any teacher who teaches a doctrine that can’t be substantiated from the standard church works-…unless that one be the President of the Church…then you may know by that same token that such a teacher is but expressing his own opinion…if it contradicts what is in the standard works, you may know that that person is teaching false doctrine, no matter what his position in this church may be.” (Stand Ye In Holy Places pp. 109-110). The same point is empasized on pp. 162-163 in referring to writen or spoken words.

[Anonymous]

I love this list and agree with all of them… except the last. I’m not there yet, I guess. (hence the wt_ is faith anyway)

Valoel wrote:

There never will be a bigger, more important key to living life than faith. Period.

In my mind, the single most important key to living life is emotional health. Period. Without it, truly nothing else matters.

I guess I’m wondering if there is a special key that I’m missing that links faith to emotional health. Are they separate but equal? Two sides of the same coin?

Enlighten me!!! 😮

[Anonymous]

If you can operate on faith and not be determined to know it ALL, especially right now, emotional health automatically improves – imo. It is the pressure to be certain – and to be absolutely certain – of everything that causes much of the emotional stress many feel.

I feel certain **for myself** about various things, but I feel absolutely NO pressure to feel certain for anyone else – or about anyone else. It helps.

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

I love this list and agree with all of them… except the last. I’m not there yet, I guess. (hence the wt_ is faith anyway)

Valoel wrote:

There never will be a bigger, more important key to living life than faith. Period.

In my mind, the single most important key to living life is emotional health. Period. Without it, truly nothing else matters.

I guess I’m wondering if there is a special key that I’m missing that links faith to emotional health. Are they separate but equal? Two sides of the same coin?

Enlighten me!!! 😮

Well, the first thought that comes to my mind is that part of faith is trust and hope and certainly these two elements are crucial to emotional health. I think that there is spiritual health too and surely emotional state effects it. But there is nothing more powerful and nothing that brings it all together more than faith.

[Anonymous]

SoDakBoy wrote:

Excellent summary. An insight from Harold B. Lee supports your position. “We have the standard Church works. Why do we call them standard? If there is any teacher who teaches a doctrine that can’t be substantiated from the standard church works-…unless that one be the President of the Church…then you may know by that same token that such a teacher is but expressing his own opinion…if it contradicts what is in the standard works, you may know that that person is teaching false doctrine, no matter what his position in this church may be.” (Stand Ye In Holy Places pp. 109-110). The same point is empasized on pp. 162-163 in referring to writen or spoken words.

Thank you for this quote, SoDakBoy. I think this is one of the things I do absolutely love about the LDS paradigm. There is always a checks and balances in place and there is always room to ask questions and move farther and farther into the understanding of the “standard”. I love the promises of such potential. Light begets more light….etc etc. I would love to start a thread dedicated to light. Maybe some day soon after I refresh my study on the subject.

[Anonymous]

Poppyseed, try the following thread:

“Science and the Gospel” – http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=522&hilit=intelligence

[Anonymous]

HiJolly wrote:

FIFTH: Everything we hear in Church, everything in General Conference, in the Ensign, etc. is what the temple endowment refers to as “the doctrines of men, mingled with scripture”. It is all hindered by the limitations of mortals struggling themselves to understand, even within the Church. The temple tells us where to get the ‘pure’ truth. There is only one source: True messengers from Father. How shall you know…?

isn’t it “philosophies of men”?

With that said, do you think that God knows how to best apply the truth to human experience? Therefore doesn’t God also have a philosophy?

So if the messenger is truly inspired by HF do you think that just quite possibly his philosophy isn’t of men?

Just a thought

[Anonymous]

quietblue wrote:

isn’t it “philosophies of men”?

You are right. If Valoel will change it, that would be ok with me.

quietblue wrote:

With that said, do you think that God knows how to best apply the truth to human experience? Therefore doesn’t God also have a philosophy?

Yes, but…

There is the word ‘philosophy’ with what it means in the Greek, and then there is the system of philosophy. These are two vastly different things. Philosophy means “love of wisdom”, but the system of philosophy deliberately removes ‘god’ from the playing field. Thus, it will not do.

quietblue wrote:

So if the messenger is truly inspired by HF do you think that just quite possibly his philosophy isn’t of men?

Just a thought

I would say, “if the messenger is sent by HF”. This is a clear distinction from simply being “inspired by”. The temple endowment is clear on this, IMO.

[Anonymous]

HiJolly wrote:

I would say, “if the messenger is sent by HF”. This is a clear distinction from simply being “inspired by”. The temple endowment is clear on this, IMO.

Good point.

Also, truly, God has a love of wisdom.

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