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I’ve waited awhile to get a clearer picture of what’s going on in this story, but it doesn’t get better. I just saw a CNN piece where the BYU spokesperson is spinning, spinning, spinning – talking about “studying” why people have “the perception” that honor code office machinery kicks in when rape allegations are made. Because it does?!? I’m truly interested in your take on this.
I would link to some stories, but which of the fifty or so would I choose?
Ann wrote:I’ve waited awhile to get a clearer picture of what’s going on in this story, but it doesn’t get better. I just saw a CNN piece where the BYU spokesperson is spinning, spinning, spinning – talking about “studying” why people have “the perception” that honor code office machinery kicks in when rape allegations are made.
Because it does?!?
Yep. It’s not a perception.
I need the backstory, a link or something to understand what this is about. Plus I have an attractive daughter attending in a few months that very institution — care to elaborate? I was talking to her today about that very thing. Care to give a hyperlink? Sorry, SD, I’m in a situation where I can’t figure out how to do links. But google “BYU honor code title IX rape” and you’ll get dozens of hits. The kick-off story about Madi Barney was in the Salt Lake Tribune a couple of weeks ago. In attempting to understand the perspective of the honor code enforcers I’m assuming that the women were expelled because of the admitted drinking/drug use and not because they “broke” the law of chastity… at least I sincerely hope that’s their perspective. Even if that’s the case it sets a terrible precedent. You’ve got to be a saint before you can seek justice? It appears as though there’s also a problem with the boundaries that should exist between the police and the university.
I don’t have anything nice to say about this one. I’m sensitive to blaming the victim and I see too much of it. Not just with church culture but with society in general.
This is just one of those scenarios where they need to admit there’s a problem and address it in some way. Don’t try to do a song and dance to justify. It’s okay to admit that mistakes were made.
Sarah Westerberg needs to be fired, and honestly, she’s not the highest level person who should be fired over this. She’s the friggin Title IX coordinator and she told an assembly of hundreds of students at a Rape Awareness Event no less that the university made “no apologies” for the chilling effect on rape accusations that the practice of pursuing Honor Code violations made by victims has. She also is quoted by victims as stating that she believes most rape claims are fabrications. She is so unfit to be in this job, I can’t even imagine what they are thinking by leaving her there. She’s not the only one that needs to go, though. Carrie Jenkins is also horrible. She’s the one who stated that there’s no demand for caffeinated sodas on campus. Westerberg seems to be saying that there’s no demand for rape support on campus. The trib did an excellent job covering this mess. Read everything they wrote. This covers legal aspects:
http://www.wheatandtares.org/20978/understanding-title-ix-and-byu/ nibbler wrote:In attempting to understand the perspective of the honor code enforcers I’m assuming that the women were expelled because of the admitted drinking/drug use and not because they “broke” the law of chastity… at least I sincerely hope that’s their perspective.
Frankly, even questioning very hard along those lines is going too far, IMO. If they volunteer the information or give it in response to being asked once, fine, but honestly, it’s too easy for a 110 pound woman with no alcohol tolerance to be loopy after even one spiked soda (and how would she know by the taste if she’d never tasted liquor?) for me to just assume that it’s always a case of becoming intoxicated voluntarily.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Sarah Westerberg needs to be fired, and honestly, she’s not the highest level person who should be fired over this. She’s the friggin Title IX coordinator and she told an assembly of hundreds of students at a Rape Awareness Event no less that the university made “no apologies” for the chilling effect on rape accusations that the practice of pursuing Honor Code violations made by victims has.
She also is quoted by victims as stating that she believes most rape claims are fabrications.This last sentence is what disturbs me. I read it in the article Sheldon provided above. So, what this means is that reporting bona fide cases of rape puts the victim at risk of losing their place at BYU. One of the cases described in the article above indicates a woman who reported a rape to the police, but not to BYU, got a call from the Honor Code office afterwards and they had the police report. Perhaps it is public record? Or they read something about it in the newspaper? But the fact the woman reported the rape to the police meant the Honor Code office got involved.
I appreciate knowing about this. I just talked to my daughter about it and she told me she thought these were highly specific situations that she is unlikely to run into. I am thankful she knows everything and I can dismiss all of this and its implications
🙄 SilentDawning wrote:One of the cases described in the article above indicates a woman who reported a rape to the police, but not to BYU, got a call from the Honor Code office afterwards and they had the police report.
Perhaps it is public record?Or they read something about it in the newspaper? But the fact the woman reported the rape to the police meant the Honor Code office got involved. It wasn’t public record. The Sheriff’s Deputy gave a copy of the police report to BYU Honor Code Office (documents apparently show he is friends with the alleged rapist, but there’s conflicting reports on that, and he’s denied it). They were both charged with retaliation against a witness. The Attorney General stepped in and dropped the charges.
This is one of the most disturbing aspects about this case, imo–an utter black mark on BYU and the Utah County Sheriff’s office.
http://kutv.com/news/local/sheriffs-deputy-was-warned-not-to-report-victim-to-byu-honor-code-office Sheldon wrote:
Quote:Carri Jenkins: There would never be an honor code review for reporting a sexual assault….
CNN: How does that victim, then, end up being disciplined by the Honor Code Office?
CJ: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t be able to speculate on any one situation.
We’re two weeks into this and BYU’s spokesperson is telling a national news outlet, “I wouldn’t know.”
What on earth.
I’ll just copy paste my comment from the W&T article explaining what a Title IX violation looks like. Quote:A few additional tidbits here. Does BYU violate any or all 3 of the facets you listed?
Retaliation? Yes, on a couple of accounts. Madeline MacDonald did not violate the BYU Honor Code at all. In her words: “There was nothing in my reported assault that was an Honor Code violation. There was no alcohol, no drugs, never anything previously consensual between myself [and my attacker].” And yet, an Honor Code investigation was opened on her, naming her a SUSPECT only as a result of her making a Title IX complaint. And why, unless they were retaliating against her, would they not allow her to participate in meetings about her when nobody involved had made any claim that she violated the Code? Additionally, Madison Barney’s Honor Code investigation was only opened when her police report was handed to the HCO by a local police officer who used to work for BYU and who disapproved of her actions as a victim, considering her behavior unseemly for BYU. This officer’s actions resulted in her being unable to withdraw from classes and at risk of expulsion which has a definite dampening effect on her ability to pursue her rape accusation.
Next, let’s look at Hostile Environment. Sarah Westerberg, who is somehow allowed to continue as BYU’s Title IX coordinator, openly boasted to over 200 assembled students at a Rape Awareness event that the Honor Code had “a chilling effect” on the reporting of rapes. That goes hand in hand with what both victims who’ve come forward have said: that Westerberg is derisive of those who make Title IX complaints, assuming that they are false complaints designed to cover up misdeeds. Hostile environment? Without question.
In short, does the policy enable rapists? Any BYU alum knows that the last thing you want is to run afoul of the Honor Code office, whether it’s for something minor like razor stubble or a skirt that’s just above the knee. The process itself is far worse than being sent to the principle’s office. It’s more like being sent to detention with Dolores Umbridge or being brought in before High Inquisitor Torquemada. The presumption is always that you are guilty. Does automatically sending rape victims to the HCO enable rapists? Absolutely.
I hope that BYU is in the midst of real soul searching here, and that they do in fact find their soul. Right now, I suspect there are plenty of those who’ve been engaged in these immoral witch-hunts for so long that they are lamenting the wicked world in which we live that is pointing with scorn at them from the great and spacious building. The real great and spacious building in this story is the misnamed Honor Code Office. That place needs to be gutted, and the Title IX coordinator replaced with someone who actually believes that it’s possible to be raped without it being your fault.
And in response to the question about why anyone would want to attend BYU:
Quote:“why would they want to attend a school that treated them like that? A morally responsible person might apply the chilling effect in the other direction and tell all their friends and relatives.”
Well, the story of Madeline makes it clear why she wanted to attend there–her whole family did, and she was proud to be accepted. She didn’t violate the code, and when she was put under investigation anyway, she got her parents involved on her behalf. She was telling her friends and relatives. But she didn’t want to be subject to academic penalties for simply being a rape victim. It’s already debilitating enough to go through the trauma of rape–that has to affect one’s grades.
In Madison’s case, the university put her ability to withdraw (with her credits intact) on hold, and they also are holding her under threat of expulsion. In both cases, academic consequences could be lost credits and money and time. Of course it’s worth it to leave over that, but it’s a heckuva weapon to put into the hands of lying rapists hellbent on shutting their victims up.
Best of the Trib articles:
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3817597-155/sexual-assault-victims-say-abusers-wield NPR did a piece a couple of days ago about this mess at BYU. Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be mormon and a BYU graduate. The gay policy was one time. This is another. My daughter graduates high school in May and she got accepted to BYU and several other schools. She chose a state school over BYU because of things like this.
An article from today’s Deseret News about Southern Virginia’s amnesty rules: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865653275/Would-BYU-honor-code-be-better-with-an-amnesty-clause-like-Southern-Virginias.html ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865653275/Would-BYU-honor-code-be-better-with-an-amnesty-clause-like-Southern-Virginias.html This report is running on CNN today and is top of the page on the website:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/29/health/brigham-young-university-rape/index.html ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/29/health/brigham-young-university-rape/index.html SVU is a tiny school, but I hope their success with this can be duplicated at BYU.
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