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Just read the Deseret News article. Fortunately, the wheels of change seem to be turning as the policies are “under review.” Whether the policy gets changed to come into compliance with title IX or because of the bad press or simply because it is the right thing to do, I believe it will be changed. Just one more thought – If a BYU student confesses a chastity or WoW related “sin” to their bishop would that be reported to the university Honor code office? I believe not. If not then why the zealousness to share information with the honor code office as part of a rape allegation?
Roy wrote:Just one more thought – If a BYU student confesses a chastity or WoW related “sin” to their bishop would that be reported to the university Honor code office? I believe not. If not then why the zealousness to share information with the honor code office as part of a rape allegation?
The bishop will not generally share that info because there is the same expectation of confidentiality as any other ward/bishop. The bishop does have control over the ecclesiastical endorsement, however. If the individual is confessing they are making an effort to repent, so the ED should not be an issue. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule in both cases (leadership roulette).
Your last question is exactly the issue – there shouldn’t be any sharing of such info with the honor code office and there should be amnesty for the rape/assault victim.
It’s like they’ve installed the Honor Code Office as the world’s worst auto-bishop – one who doesn’t really know you, who will pre-judge you, hold gossip against you, and whose main reason for existence seems to be intimidation. Ann wrote:Sheldon wrote:
Quote:Carri Jenkins: There would never be an honor code review for reporting a sexual assault….
CNN: How does that victim, then, end up being disciplined by the Honor Code Office?
CJ: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t be able to speculate on any one situation.
We’re two weeks into this and BYU’s spokesperson is telling a national news outlet, “I wouldn’t know.”
What on earth.
I’m reminded of something Freud said about the “memory” of his patients. He would ask them to free associate ideas from a triggering thought in hopes of reaching the root of their problem. Eventually, the patient would reach a point where they could not think of anything further. Essentially saying the equivalent of “I wouldn’t know”.
This, to Freud, revealed the location of the problem for the patient. His job was to unearth that hidden thought from the patient. In that thought was something anxiety producing, something that, if addressed would shed light on treatment for the patient. Often the thought was so distressing to the patient, the only place Freud could get at that thought/problem was through their dreams, particularly nightmares where the person’s self-protection processes are relaxed, and disguised versions of the thought emerge in the form of a vivid dream.
I see a modified version of this problem all the time. I work with someone who is very political. There are times strange things happen — initiatives blocked, out of the blue plans that decimate mine, priviledges suddenly “revoked” etcetera. I have often asked point blank questions to get at the political root of the problem. And when she a) doesn’t answer b) says “she doesn’t know” or c) claims memory loss or technology screw ups, I know that the answer to my question is likely something I would not want to hear. Something, which, if admitted would make her look bad or really tick me off.
So when people say “I have no recollection of that”, or “we don’t know why blacks were denied the priesthood”, you know that the answer to that question is something they can’t live with or which would create very negative consequences for them. It is a trigger for anxiety, and you know that behind that door lies the root of the problem. To me, it’s an admission of shame unless I truly believe their memory loss or lack of knowledge is justifiable. I often weigh their claims against their intelligence, the salience of the issue on the palette, and my assessment of the probability the technical problem actually existed.
In this case, the spokesperson relied on the “I can’t talk about specific cases”, justifiable reason for stonewalling, when the question appears to have been a general one. So, the answer to that question would likely not help her case
Ann wrote:Sheldon wrote:
Quote:Carri Jenkins: There would never be an honor code review for reporting a sexual assault….
CNN: How does that victim, then, end up being disciplined by the Honor Code Office?
CJ: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t be able to speculate on any one situation.
We’re two weeks into this and BYU’s spokesperson is telling a national news outlet, “I wouldn’t know.”
What on earth.
I can only speculate but I think this has to do with the LDS – old school idea of rape. The picture of rape is of someone jumping out of the bushes and abducting a woman with a deadly weapon. I believe Carri Jenkins is saying that an honor code review would not be opened for reporting that type of sexual assault. However what if a female BYU student is raped in the restroom of a bar? That might trigger an honor code review to determine if she was violating honor code by being in the bar in the first place. Most rapes occurring on college campuses involve some degree of drugs and/or alcohol. If the victim partook of any of these substances before the rape and that detail is included in the report of the sexual assault or if that detail comes to light in the rape investigation – I assume that would then trigger an honor code review.
SWK said twice in Miracle of Forgiveness that it would be better for a woman to die defending her “virtue” than to submit to rape without a struggle. In my mind this hearkens back to the image of a woman who is accosted on a dark street. If that happens then she is innocent and she has the bruises/broken bones to prove it. What about if she goes to a party and naively takes some pills that incapacitate her and wakes up to find pictures of her being abused, manhandled, and sexually assaulted on social media? Does this qualify as “legitimate rape” in the conservative/old school/Mormon mentality? What about a woman that is on a date and is sexually assaulted by her date? What if she freezes and does not actually say no? The absence of a “no” is not the same thing as a “yes”. However, it might make it harder to get a rape conviction. Does this qualify as legitimate rape? Because she did not fiercely struggle nor did she even manage to squeak out a “no” – might that imply that she had some level of consent in the sexual contact? What if she was completely on board with making out and even heavy petting but drew the line at intercourse? legitimate rape? Because there might be some question in some people’s minds about the victim’s level of consent that might be all that it takes to justify the opening of an honor code review.
I believe that Carri was saying that as long as the rape case is black and white – (woman minding her own business walking home from church is forcibly overtaken by a sex crazed drifter) – then there “would never be an honor code review for reporting a sexual assault.” If the circumstances are any messier than that then the Honor Code office may step in. I believe that this has a lot to do with how conservatives and Mormons in particular envision rape.
I agree, Roy. But what’s so infuriating about “I wouldn’t know” is that she knows darn well. It’s really, “I don’t think it’s wise for me to spell it out on national television.” Using the fact that she might
notknow the particulars of these cases is a really lame way to avoid the larger question being asked. It just kills me that BYU has had weeks to “look at the issue” and effectively nothing has even been said. It was easy to see that if they did not address it rather quickly that there was a huge risk of it snowballing – which it looks more like it is moving that way. More people coming out saying, “that happened to me” – more press coverage. I have not watched this yet, but it looks like a ~10 minute segment on Nightline on the issue.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/rape-survivors-brigham-youngs-honor-code-speaking-39160388 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/rape-survivors-brigham-youngs-honor-code-speaking-39160388 What a sad, sad commentary. This is a HUGEThe take away message is: the honor code & the university come before the victim.
The related story about the lax processing of rape kits is also disturbing. Many schools protect their images at the expense of rape victims, but the BYU situation is complicated and worsened by the Honor Code Office involvement.
A friend recommended a documentary – The Hunting Ground – about college sexual assault. I’m kind of sorry I watched it because I’m more worried than before for my daughters, and because I find even myself on the brink of victim-blaming. It’s an awful problem. I would be so proud if BYU took this bad press and did the right thing. Led the way. There doesn’t seem to be a single major university that has figured this out.
Added May 19th: I notice on Facebook that BYU is soliciting information on this at
https://feedback2016.byu.edu . The site is titled, “Campus and Community Remarks on Sexual Assault and Title IX Compliance.”BYU has formed an advisory council to study the sexual assault issue. While I don’t think it necessarily takes a study to see what needs to be done (separate the Title IX and Honor Code offices and give honor code immunity/amnesty to assault victims IMO), there is an opportunity for input. Here is a link to the “BYU News” article:
BYU NewsinputThis article talks about how it is human nature to assume that when bad things happen to other people that they must have done something to bring it upon themselves. This is very much alive in the conversations about date rape situations at BYU.
The following was my comment at BCC:
Quote:My experience was similar. We had a young adult woman (19) working as a housekeeper for the Travelodge across the street from the public library and county courthouse. She was killed as she worked cleaning a hotel room. It rocked our small community. In conversation an LDS couple told me that they had heard a rumor that this young woman had posted her schedule on social media. I responded that we have to tell ourselves those kinds of things because if she could be murdered in broad daylight while doing her job and saving for college in a good part of town across the street from where people check out books and pay their water bill – then how could any of us ever be truly safe. It was a VERY awkward moment.
Years later the murderer was caught in an unrelated crime. He did not know the deceased. When asked why he did it he said that he wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody.
This is human nature to believe that we are more in control of our environment and our own safety than we are. I personally find that LDS teaching exacerbate this tendency because we seem to believe that we can “call down the powers of heaven” in our behalf by honoring our priesthood and faithfully paying our tithing.
The sexuality/modesty discussion is valid and I believe that it adds an additional layer of complexity to the victim shaming – but the shaming does not start there. I agree with Katie @ 11:10 when she says that it starts with fear.
I will give BYU kudos for having 3 women and 1 man on this committee. Having said that, they need to really hurry up. I went and submitted to the website they setup and basically said,
“HURRY!!!!!”Yet another article today
http://www.sltrib.com/news/3897390-155/byu-students-who-reported-sex-assaults ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.sltrib.com/news/3897390-155/byu-students-who-reported-sex-assaults
Quote:Of more than 50 people who have told The Tribune they were sexually assaulted while attending BYU, a majority said they did not report the assaults — most of them citing fears that they would be held guilty of chastity violations, either for the assault or for prior sexual contact.
Taking their time is costing them dearly, both in people coming forward saying they were raped/assaulted and didn’t report (or went to bishops and were immediately told they had sinned).
And give the poor bishops some training – especially BYU bishops.
From Mormon Newsroom – Getting it Right: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-news-getting-it-right-may-19-2016 What do you think? If this is the truth, the Trib lied about giving the church input into future stories. On the other hand, the church is still being (purposely?) obtuse. No one is saying it condones assault.
Quote:Let us be perfectly clear: There is no tolerance for sexual assault at BYU or in the Church. Assault of any kind is a serious criminal offense,
I’m following you so far…
Quote:and we support its reporting, investigation and prosecution to the full extent of the law.
Lost me there. Are you sure? Why make this statement when the BYU feedback site has only been up for 48 hours. Listen first, please!
I wish they would just let BYU do its thing, because that truly is encouraging “news.”
I can’t seem to get the trib article on my phone, but I thought the trib said that they had asked but no answer from the church. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ann wrote:What do you think? If this is the truth, the Trib lied about giving the church input into future stories. On the other hand, the church is still being (purposely?) obtuse. No one is saying it condones assault.
My gut reaction: Who cares about the Tribune’s promise to give the church input in a future story? Is nit picking over how the story is being covered by the media really what they want to focus on? It seems like a distraction from the real issue at hand.
Quote:For several weeks, the Salt Lake Tribune has aggressively reported on the incidence of alleged sexual assaults at Brigham Young University. In one report on May 6, 2016, the newspaper not only implied that a “rape culture” exists at BYU but that the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints materially contributed to that culture. Despite making such extraordinary claims, Tribune reporters did not approach the Church for comment. Following its publication, a Public Affairs representative from the Church contacted the newspaper and asked why the Church had not been given an opportunity to comment on such a major story. One of the two writers acknowledged the “lapse in judgment,” and said she felt that the inclusion of a reference to the Church’s leadership handbook was sufficient. Note to Tribune editors: it wasn’t.
That last sentence doesn’t feel very professional to me. I expect more from my church and to be honest I’d even expect more coming from a secular corporation. It comes across like they are trying to win an argument with the Tribune. Frankly the church should be
farmore concerned over the culture at BYU than it should be over whether the media is covering the story in a way that is agreeable to them. It wasn’t all that long ago that the PR department made some other less than professional statement, I can’t remember about what right now. They recently changed the person in charge of the PR department but this looks like another case where it would have been better had they remained silent.
“Getting it right,” insinuating the Tribune is wrong. “Setting the record straight” might have been a better approach but I don’t know why the PR arm bothers. Do they imagine they have some degree of control over the story the media presents? Why wag the finger of shame at the media? It just makes them look like they are going after the whistle-blower. If they feel they aren’t being represented use the PR article to tell the story they wanted to tell the Tribune (in their words even!) and spend no time at all taking digs at people.
Quote:On Thursday of this week (May 19), after becoming aware that the Tribune was soon going to publish a further report with interviews of BYU students who had been assaulted, a Church spokesman again contacted Tribune editors and received a commitment that the Church would be given ample opportunity to participate in future stories that involved the Church. Less than two hours later, the newspaper published the story, again without giving the Church an opportunity to respond.
Less than two hours later. So it was probably a story that had already been written, edited, and published under a deadline at the time that promise was made, or it was an oversight, or it was any number of things. Why go on the defense? Or is that offense?
Why couldn’t the whole of the article be those italicized paragraphs? Why go after the Tribune over something that’s comparatively trivial in nature?
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