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Hey guys, thanks for of all your help over the past year. I think I at the challenge in my faith transition. A little background to catch up on. I lost my faith in the literalism of the church about a year ago. I decided to stay because of spiritual, community and family reasons (single male but I like doing church stuff with my family). Also majority of mormon values I love (Chasity, word of wisdom, service, family, etc to name a few) I was told by my ysa branch president (I’m 32, but I get to stick around a bit longer) that he wouldn’t give me temple recommend because my faith transition. I was devastated but after some thought and some time I realize that was a good decision. It’s hard to pay 10% and be fully committed LDS when a lot of the literalism is gone for myself. I also discover along the way that there was more to life than church and I could find fulfillment and live a beautiful life without being a believer. So I decided I could stick around but put certain boundaries on the church like how much time it takes for me. (I go to church for 1-2 hours instead of the whole 3)
Over the last year things have been getting hardier and harder for me. I loved my calling. I am activities chairmen so I just plan all FHE and activities but with a small branch it’s really hard to justify the number of people that show up and the time i put it AND me not being a believing member anymore. Also just the thought of me (I hate using this word bu for a lack of a better word) “valued” in the church. Like quite literally most women in church wouldn’t marry me due to not having endowments and deciding the temple isn’t for me. I say this because there has a lot of women who already done this to me. Also the spirituality part is slowing leaving me. A lot of Sunday school lessons are just not applicable for me. Most of them just talk about obedience. I really try hard to find little nuggets of wisdom but I feel like I’m wasting my time. I feel like my semi commitment to church is taking away some other opputurnites I could have that else where. I also feel like I’m failing in expectations too when I decide that cleaning the church isn’t for me and when I’m not doing home teaching (but I do serve those who I home teach, I just don’t teach them on a monthly basis). Also there is the elephant in the room, my family. Everybody is a TBM (from what i can tell). I know my family would still love me but I know how heart broken the image of the eternal family. I know that shouldn’t effect my decision, but I’m a human being with irrational emotions.
Well since my last interview my last branch president left and we got a new one. I was really nervous meeting him because bad experience with other church authority. Turns out he’s a great guy. He for sure gave me church advice I was expecting (pray more, read scriptures more, etc) but he big thing he hit was that I needed to start taking my next step where ever that is. He said I was just sitting on the fence and choose a side or have some kind of progression towards something. I think he was mostly right. I’m too afraid to really commit to anything. I don’t want to leave the church because some things I listed above (similar values, sharing experiences with my family, social, community, etc) but at the same time I’m having a very hard time visualizing a progression with the church and having a hard time committing to things because how I am valued in the church.
He told me I didn’t had to take any huge steps like going to temple or leaving the church. I just needed to take a small one. I needed to go towards something. So I decided this would be a great start and ask what you guys think. Do I have room for the church in my life? Is there a future with it? I guess the real question is “What is my relationship with the church?”.
There are days like this wish I didn’t study out the church. Take the blue pill and just carry on. Sorry about being a little melodramatic.
I can really relate to what your are going through. My circumstances are different but the question is still the same. In fact, I was just about to post asking almost the exact same question. It is so hard! One day I feel like Korihor and that because of my unbelief I will be living a life of misery and sentenced to Outer Darkness and the next day, I feel like I am on the right path for me. This church is very difficult to be a member of if you’re not “all in”. Like you have described, you end up being on the outside if you don’t have a temple recommend. I can’t imagine it would be very uplifting to have to spend every Sunday with girls that don’t look at you as marriage material. I have had kids that have went through the same thing. No matter what you have accomplished in your life, or what type of person you are, if you are not an active Mormon and/or don’t fit the mold, you often feel less than and are treated as such. It has been very hard on them as I’m sure it has been for you.
I agree about the fence -sitting part. I really would love to make this middle way work but I just don’t know how. I feel like I always see grey now instead of black and white. I’m not sure how to change this or if I even should. I will be anxiously waiting to see what advice you get from others. Hang in there!
Although this site is called STAYLDS, the reality is that you need to find the best path for you. Pray and take a step. See what direction God is sending you. Trust in yourself and in God. Everything and everyone else will fall in line and adjust. Give yourself permission to create the life you want to live. There isn’t a right answer .. Just the right answer for you. Find it.
I agree with what AP said. I’m not sure where you live in relation to the Mormon Corridor, but either way I also suggest you give a grown up ward a try (no offense intended). YSA wards/branches are right for some “older” YSAs and not for others. There is a difference in a regular ward and a YSA ward, and a regular ward might actually be able to offer you some support/inclusion in ways a YSA ward can’t (particularly outside the Corridor). mczee wrote:A little background to catch up on. I lost my faith in the literalism of the church about a year ago. I decided to stay because of spiritual, community and family reasons (single male but I like doing church stuff with my family). Also majority of mormon values I love (Chasity, word of wisdom, service, family, etc to name a few) I was told by my ysa branch president (I’m 32, but I get to stick around a bit longer) that he wouldn’t give me temple recommend because my faith transition. I was devastated but after some thought and some time I realize that was a good decision. It’s hard to pay 10% and be fully committed LDS when a lot of the literalism is gone for myself.
Let’s take this as the foundation of what must come in the future. I am with you on this. I don’t believe everything literally either. And I do like a lot of the values. And for for all its warts, Mormonism attracts very good-hearted people — and often helps people become good, nice people for the most part. All good things to hang on to.
Quote:I also discover along the way that there was more to life than church and I could find fulfillment and live a beautiful life without being a believer. So I decided I could stick around but put certain boundaries on the church like how much time it takes for me. (I go to church for 1-2 hours instead of the whole 3)
Yes! I have trodden that path. My life is very full right now. The key, for me, was to marginalize the church in my life. Not evict it, just spend a bit of time at it so it is enough of my life to keep my family happy, and recently, keep me happy, but not disilliusioned. And that often means reducing commitment to certain areas, avoiding activities that have a low reward to effort ratio.
Simultaneously, find other activities that are interesting and bring you joy — make joy the object of your life and the standard by which you assess the place of all activities in which you engage, in your life. This means you might belong to a different service organization while maintaining your church involvement. Join a food bank, or just do service with other people in other secular organizations. There are a lot of them.
I also picked up a hobby that I really like, and have a lot of other educational interests. I am way happier than I ever was when the church was my focal point.
And if the church isn’t bringing that joy, then interact with the church to the extent it brings you happiness. In your situation, you love many of the commandments like chastity, Does being at church reinforce those values? That’s a good reason to stay. If the lessons don’t inspire you, but you feel it’s important to be there, consider doing some reading during that time, or ask questions about topics that interest you that are related to the lesson to make it meaningful.
Quote:it’s really hard to justify the number of people that show up and the time i put it AND me not being a believing member anymore.
REminds me of our reaching out to less actives years ago. I visited over 100 homes and saw almost zero results. No more. That doesn’t bring joy. There are other things that are more impactful — what are those things in your local Ward or community?
On the other hand, do these activities help others? Can you engage in them because of the impact it has on other people? I have a TBM daughter and I would support her in all kinds of ways because the gospel made her happiness. That brought me joy — can you learn to take pleasure in the pleasure of other people as they feast on the opportunities you give them to interact with others and the gospel in a way that makes them happy? Look at your effort as a gift to someone. Often the gift we buy someone is not something we would buy for ourselves, but we get great satisfaction out of seeing their own happiness with the gift. So, consider detaching yourself from the gospel and all it’s imperatives for you, while helping others engage positively with it for love of their own peace and happiness.
Quote:Like quite literally most women in church wouldn’t marry me due to not having endowments and deciding the temple isn’t for me. I say this because there has a lot of women who already done this to me.
That’s tough — I don’t have an answer for that one.
Quote:Also the spirituality part is slowing leaving me. A lot of Sunday school lessons are just not applicable for me. Most of them just talk about obedience. I really try hard to find little nuggets of wisdom but I feel like I’m wasting my time.
Then consider dropping any expectation Sunday will be a spiritual feeding session. Figure out how to create your own spiritual experiences alone. I do that a lot now, by reading good books that are not necessarily the Book of Mormon, personal meditation, and reflection.
Quote:I also feel like I’m failing in expectations too when I decide that cleaning the church isn’t for me and when I’m not doing home teaching (but I do serve those who I home teach, I just don’t teach them on a monthly basis).
I would suggest getting on your own clock as fast possible on that one. I don’t clean the chapel, I don’t do windows, I don’t help people move, and I don’t do things that have low return on effort invested anymore. Those things do not bring me joy, and some even hurt my back. Take comfort in what JS said — no unhallowed hand can stop the gospel — it will roll forth until it’s visited every corner of the earth. The cleaning will get done, and if it doesn’t, maybe the church will consider hiring back a few janitors rather than putting it on the backs of the members?
Quote:Also there is the elephant in the room, my family. Everybody is a TBM (from what i can tell). I know my family would still love me but I know how heart broken the image of the eternal family. I know that shouldn’t effect my decision, but I’m a human being with irrational emotions.
I think you SHOULD consider it. Again, if you consider JoY and happiness the object of your existence, then does making your family happy make you happy? If so, engage with the church enough that they are happy with you. That brings a new meaning for going to church, taken with your love of the principles of good and clean living. It is a major reason I am at church every week — it makes my wife happy.
Quote:“What is my relationship with the church?”.
Could you be an active or semi-active member who interacts with the church in ways that bring you joy and happiness? One who has a place for the church in your life, but not the center of it? A relationship in which you support others in finding happiness due to their faith in the gospel? At the same time, finding happiness in other organizations or personal activities (non-church related) that also increase the joy in your life?
Perhaps if you could answer “what would bring me joy in the church, notwithstanding my non-literal belief in the church”? Answer this question, and that could help you define the place of the church in your life.
One thing is for certain, I would avoid discussions with priesthood leaders. The impact is likely to limit your options. For example, I may want to hold a TR someday. My conversations with leaders preserve that eventuality. I don’t want them to make me jump through hoops if I want one — I want to just show up, say I’m ready, answer the questions properly and with reasonable integrity and then move on. Candid discussions about doubt rarely ever promote your flexiblity….
Good luck. You have expressed a lot of issues here — i would post them one by one as topics for discussion until you find your own way with them. That’s what I did. Really helped.
I think the similar experiences we all share is what has brought us together as a group. Inside the Church, for the post part, everything is viewed as Black-and-White. The Church is true, inspired and led by God, or it is not. The conclusion that I, as well as most of us on StayLDS have arrived at is the Church is a mix of good and bad… of truth and false. “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16)
That is the mentality of the majority of the Church membership; and one of the reasons why many people either remain TBM their whole lives, or go on to downright hate the Church. But that’s not the way life works. We’re a mix of good and bad. We are right about many things, and have incorrect views on so many others. Think of the story of Captain Moroni. When supplies and provisions didn’t arrive from the capital, he was VERY angry at the chief judge, Pahoran. He wrote a very long, vengeful letter, decouncing the leader and declaring a revelation from God that if Pathoran did not send provisions, God comanded Moroni to destroy him. But in the end, it turned out Pahoran was a good man, who wanted to help, but was overthrown by an internal rebellion.
All mankind, even prophets are like that. Good, honest men, who desire to follow God with all their hearts, but who are capeable of getting caught up in emotion and bias, and are sometimes incorrect. The moral of the story is that even prophets, even when speaking what they believe to be revelation, can be wrong.
I hope you are able to continue your membership and activity in the Church. Maybe it would be best to switch to a family ward. Maybe it would be best to take a break and secure a foundation in what truly brings you peace and happiness, and then bring it back to the Church. I would recommend reading other religious texts besides the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Try Bhuddism. Bhuddah always taught with a grain of salt, never professing divine authority. He taught from experience, and yet fully admitted that he could be wrong. He is an excellent source for finding peace, happiness, and meaning apart from traditional religion.
I am the resident poster child for visiting other churches. I consider the LDS church as my “home church” where I “attend” and identify. I visit and participate in other churches as often as I can. I have observed a few things. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are very similar to us in their approach and the feel. We both have different doctrinal points but I can see where we each came to their own interpretation of the scriptures honestly. We both make very serious and pointed truth claims and are very earnest about them. The Seventh Day Adventists are similar to this in some respects… however they seem to have a softer approach to it in their modern church. (For example, they tell me that if God has impressed upon my heart to not eat meat or to honor Saturday as the Sabbath or to pay a tithe then TO ME it is considered a commandment. This gives them room to welcome new comers and members that are not ready to jump in with both feet all at once.)
I really recommend that you visit a church that has a good worship band. These can be powerful spiritual experiences. Music is its own form of spirituality in many ways.
I have really enjoyed some of the messages from the pastors. Some of them are trained, funny, and engaging speakers in their own right. What I have enjoyed most, however, is the different perspectives that they sometimes have on the same old scriptures that I memorized in my seminary days. It can be like seeing the bible stories again – but for the first time.
If I were you, I would check out some other churches if for no other reason than to broaden your perspective on the different ways to “do church”.
Just my $0.02 – your mileage may vary.
The middle way requires patienceQuote:The music that is our lives can only be fully recognized, experienced, and played out when we allow space to move, breathe, and enjoy. We need to let go and let time play out at its own rhythm.
When we rush around, we lose patience and enjoyment of the moment, as I had. We also miss our own individual melody and all the experiences, feelings, and people which help to create it.
Only you can answer the questions for what you want, and where to place your faith.
If you follow your heart, there is no wrong answer.
I do agree with others who gave great advice that finding things to do in your life and filling your life with good things. Wherever you find them.
I have often found in my life experience, whether a missionary, or looking for a career, or looking for a companion…when I am busy and happy with other things in my life, I seem to find what I was looking for in the most unusual places. When I am focused and trying to force-find what I want impatiently, it feels like I can’t find it and I agonize over why it isn’t happening.
The good thing about the church is that it isn’t going anywhere. Try different things and see how you feel. Follow your heart. Whether you stay or go, your ward will be there and go forward regardless of how you choose to be happy.
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