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Old-Timer wrote:Quote:
Sometimes I wish the signs of the second coming were flowers in people’s hair, a decrease in violent crime, an increase in charity, etc. so people would comb the news looking for positive things to validate their faith.
:thumbup: [emoji4] I like this a lot. I have always thought that hey, if we’re going to use confirmation bias to look for things generally we should look for positive things with it at least.
My beef with the second coming rhetoric is it gives people an excuse to do nothing. No point in addressing the big problems because Jesus is coming to fix everything. Problem is he is not coming. It is best we acknowledge that move on and start fixing things for ourselves. Old-Timer wrote:NOT to turn this into a scientific debate of any kind[/b] (seriously, I do NOT want comments about right or wrong to ensue about this), but just look at the global warming / climate change rhetoric: It is every bit as apocalyptic as Second Coming warnings, and those who frame it the most extremely generally aren’t doing so from a religious foundation.
The reason Global Warming has not been jumped on by the “2nd Coming is soon” crowd at church is because it is a left wing idea (fact), not espoused by the conservative leanings of most church members. If you flip the equation, the church would be all over Global Warming as a Sign of the Times.
As a teenager in the 80’s, I remember “signs of the times” being discussed in church and seminary quite frequently. This, of course, was during the Cold War period and there was no doubt in my young mind that the final conflict would be between the U.S. (bastion of righteousness) and the Soviet Union (bastion of wickedness). And it terrified me. Now, of course, the Soviet Union has been gone for more than twenty years. I think it has become harder to see those “signs” without some big readily identifiable source of “evil.” That role seems to shift around depending on how the political winds blow (China? North Korea? Iraq? Afghanistan? Russia?). I don’t know what will happen or when but, as a Church, we certainly are not as “eschatological” or “apocalyptical” as we used to be. And that’s probably for the best. When I was in my more traditional believing days I remembered studying up on Armageddon in the old testament student manual from the church. It mentioned that Armageddon would began after two witnesses, General Authorities, were killed and resurrected in Jerusalem. Basically it would involve the nation of Israel and others in Israel in basically some sort of world war. I still have faith that this could happen, but after having a faith reconstruction I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t ever happen. Now how could Armageddon be more understood in a truly symbolic way. Humanity being wiped out or severely decimated in some cataclysmic event is not hard to imagine – whether it be natural or man-made. I could envision a WWIII that involved nuclear weapons in the hands of extremely evil people – and I have hardcore conservative friends who advocate openly for the use of nuclear and/or biological warfare on ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups (including the slaughter of entire communities that don’t fight terrorism openly). I also could envision global climate change and/or a viral epidemic leading to something that would make the black plague look like a historical blip. Do I think any of that will happen? Probably not in my lifetime, and I wouldn’t bet on it – but it certainly is a possibility. Thus, I understand and can’t dismiss completely those who believe in an apocalyptic event tied to the Second Coming. The First Rising, if you will, is harder to believe than a Second Coming, so if someone believes the first, I can understand believing the second.
Old-Timer wrote:Humanity being wiped out or severely decimated in some cataclysmic event is not hard to imagine – whether it be natural or man-made. I could envision a WWIII that involved nuclear weapons in the hands of extremely evil people – and I have hardcore conservative friends who advocate openly for the use of nuclear and/or biological warfare on ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups (including the slaughter of entire communities that don’t fight terrorism openly). I also could envision global climate change and/or a viral epidemic leading to something that would make the black plague look like a historical blip.
Do I think any of that will happen? Probably not in my lifetime, and I wouldn’t bet on it – but it certainly is a possibility. Thus, I understand and can’t dismiss completely those who believe in an apocalyptic event tied to the Second Coming. The First Rising, if you will, is harder to believe than a Second Coming, so if someone believes the first, I can understand believing the second.
And that’s why I’m a doomsday prepper! (I’m not actually, although I do have some emergency preparations and I think the show is fun – and funny – to watch.)
I was just thinking about this topic since the attacks on France, and searched for this thread. Interesting to read through these thoughts on the signs of our times. The Church teaches:
Quote:Many of these signs are being fulfilled. Wickedness is everywhere. Nations are constantly at war. Earthquakes and other calamities are occurring. Many people now suffer from devastating storms, drought, hunger, and diseases. We can be certain that these calamities will become more severe before the Lord comes.
I’m just not sure I see much value in looking at the signs that were predicted by prophets. I don’t know what to draw meaning from it?
Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?
Heber13 wrote:I was just thinking about this topic since the attacks on France, and searched for this thread. Interesting to read through these thoughts on the signs of our times.
The Church teaches:
Quote:Many of these signs are being fulfilled. Wickedness is everywhere. Nations are constantly at war. Earthquakes and other calamities are occurring. Many people now suffer from devastating storms, drought, hunger, and diseases. We can be certain that these calamities will become more severe before the Lord comes.
I’m just not sure I see much value in looking at the signs that were predicted by prophets. I don’t know what to draw meaning from it?
Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?
No, because most of these things have been happening for 2000 years plus. They sort of remind me how a “psychic” knows things about people – it’s mostly about confirmation bias.
I have a prediction that the 2nd coming will not be for at least 10 more years. You see, that would be too easy: I Have DEBTS to pay, and if Christ came, my creditors wouldn’t get their last ounce of blood, sweat and tears out of me. Oh no……can’t be that soon,…because it might prevent the bill collectors from chasing me down (they would be, after all, stubble or something like that ).
I got enough problems to deal with now than freaking out about another chicken little prediction.
In that list I’m not seeing anything new. E.g. the occurrence of some new, never before seen event in human history. I suppose the argument revolves around these events occurring more frequently and/or being more severe. On that front it’s hard to tell. We might feel like these events are few and far between until something affects us directly, then it’s happening all the time. The world is also much smaller than it once was. What happens in France no longer stays in France, it’s in our living room and affects us.
If two 500 year floods happen within 20 years of each other what does it mean? That we were wrong about it being a 500 year flood? That we won the disaster lottery? Do we focus on those occurrences and forget about the places where 500 year floods haven’t happened for a whole millennia? It’s easier to miss events that don’t happen.
Saying natural disasters are going to happen is a pretty low risk prophecy. The sun will rise in the east, Vegemite will taste bad, SNL will get progressively worse with each passing season, these are the signs of my coming.
:angel: I tend not to worry about the end days. Everyone will have a last day whether it’s the result of Jesus coming to lay the smack down or whether we finally kick the bucket due to old age. If an earthquake should interrupt my wait for either it’s not like holding off on drinking that cup of coffee for a few more days would have prevented the quake.
I’m more concerned with the love of many waxing cold. I’ve seen it up close and personal, I’ve succumbed to it, the temptation is real. That’s a sign where I hopefully could change and make some difference.
Heber asked Quote:
Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?No. I used to get all wound around the axle about it, but I’ve lived through too much to believe it anymore. Presently I have taken to calmly dismissing the conversation when it comes up. I stick to conference talks and biblical passages to cool the flames of anxiety.
I get the panic. Paris broke my heart and the rage of the world and how we enact that rage terrifies me, but Rome was no friendlier, or any other conqueror for that matter. At this time I side with Nibbler –
Quote:I’m more concerned with the love of many waxing cold. I’ve seen it up close and personal, I’ve succumbed to it, the temptation is real. That’s a sign where I hopefully could change and make some difference.
I personally question whether there will be a second coming. Life is so unfair in terms of revealing the truth in ways that are undeniable, and arguments about why “faith” is necessary no longer hold water for me. Faith has been used in so many ways to lead well-meaning people astray. I have often wondered if believing in the Second Coming is like believing in the Easter Bunny. I think there’s an element of religious smugness to our obsession with signs of the times. We all like the idea that we will be one of the chosen few on the deck of the ark as the floodwaters rush in. The doomsday talk has actually calmed way down since I was a youth in the nineties, though. I think when the world didn’t end with Y2K we all decided to worry a little less.
Joni wrote:I think there’s an element of religious smugness to our obsession with signs of the times. We all like the idea that we will be one of the chosen few on the deck of the ark as the floodwaters rush in.
The doomsday talk has actually calmed way down since I was a youth in the nineties, though. I think when the world didn’t end with Y2K we all decided to worry a little less.
Yep. We had another 1oo years until we started panicking again. But then again, some are already doing it.I just don’t want to be a computer programmer in the year 9999 and the Y10K panic that will be going on!
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