"Six Destructive D’s"

[Anonymous]

I experience a lot of doubt about his talk about doubt .

A total lack of doubt to me would lead to a total and complete inflexibility, or a lack of ability to progress. A complete lack of doubt is perfect for God, if they are perfect. I’m guessing us mortals could still make use of doubt.

How about a raging heroine addict who has no doubts he can handle his problem. Is that good? Someone like that can use a big dose of doubt. Of course I know the talk was about doubts in the Church or the LDS Gospel. Let’s just say we can all point out a many moments in Church history where doubts were experienced by the leaders of the Church, enough that they sought revelation to change things and make them better.

We can’t progress unless we doubt.

[Anonymous]

jmb275 wrote:

A better word for the “good kind of doubt” is uncertainty. So, my question to the author of the talk would be why didn’t you say this? And this, I think, is an important issue in the church.

…

This is one thing that led me to where I am. The church preaches honesty, and encourages it, and at times have even proclaimed they are totally open about everything, yet it is clear they purposely skirt what could be an opportunity to clarify, and, IMHO border on being dishonest. What would be the downside of an open, honest, clear, concise response? Are they afraid of something? Would it undermine authority, or damage people’s testimony?

Interesting points, JMB. Because you raise this point about how the leaders speak and if they are being dishonest, I think this warrants further discussion to really understand what he is saying…even if we think he is ambiguous.

I go back to the post from swimordie and also reread the entire talk.

To me, the speaker is equating “doubt” with faithlessness. If you have faith, you don’t doubt but you are confident in God’s works. If you doubt God can heal you, than you are giving in to fears and lack the trust in God’s power to work within you. If you doubt God has a finger…you cannot be worthy to see the finger of God literally like the Brother of Jared. That doubt is different than not knowing everything or not knowing an answer.

On the other hand, if you do have doubt…that is just the way it is, so what do you do about it? “If any of you lack wisdom, let his ask of God” – you turn to God with faith he will provide answers or peace or confidence to dispel doubt.

So, from that perspective, doubt is a bad thing to hold on to if it is defined as the opposite of faith. And because we find ourselves having doubt, we should take initiative to dispel it by turning to God and asking for the gift of faith so we can walk on water, without doubting what God can do. That process can be a good thing if we can trust God can remove our doubts and we honestly seek to have them taken from us.

I go back and change my prior comments. Doubt is not a good thing, but because of necessity of opposites, doubt exists. When I choose to act to dispel doubt, the process is a good thing and through the mercy of God I can learn new things to dispel my doubts which is a good thing…not doubt itself.

[Anonymous]

Call it spam if you will, but I’m going to post this yet again:

DOUBT

The downside:

Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might

win by fearing to attempt.

— William Shakespeare,

Measure for Measure, Act 1

The upside:

“To refuse to doubt, think about or question what you are told

is to miss an opportunity to talk to God”

— Father Leo Booth

The annoying truth:

“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and

the intelligent are full of doubt.”

— Bertrand Russell

The uplifting truth:

“Living with ambiguity is a form of intellectual honesty, of

humility. It is only when we admit that we don’t know that we

are receptive to what lessons may be taught. In some strange

way, it also brings an inner peace since we are no longer

fighting reality to maintain our inner fantasies on how things

should be. While I am characterizing it as an intellectual

process, it also has spiritual implications, since only an open

mind is capable of hearing God.”

— Andy Piereder (on Eyring-L)

HiJolly

[Anonymous]

HiJolly, your spam is yummy. I’ll take whatever spam you wanna give us!

Those really are wonderful, true quotes.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

jmb275 wrote:

A better word for the “good kind of doubt” is uncertainty. So, my question to the author of the talk would be why didn’t you say this? And this, I think, is an important issue in the church.

…

This is one thing that led me to where I am. The church preaches honesty, and encourages it, and at times have even proclaimed they are totally open about everything, yet it is clear they purposely skirt what could be an opportunity to clarify, and, IMHO border on being dishonest. What would be the downside of an open, honest, clear, concise response? Are they afraid of something? Would it undermine authority, or damage people’s testimony?

Interesting points, JMB. Because you raise this point about how the leaders speak and if they are being dishonest, I think this warrants further discussion to really understand what he is saying…even if we think he is ambiguous.

I go back to the post from swimordie and also reread the entire talk.

To me, the speaker is equating “doubt” with faithlessness. If you have faith, you don’t doubt but you are confident in God’s works. If you doubt God can heal you, than you are giving in to fears and lack the trust in God’s power to work within you. If you doubt God has a finger…you cannot be worthy to see the finger of God literally like the Brother of Jared. That doubt is different than not knowing everything or not knowing an answer.

On the other hand, if you do have doubt…that is just the way it is, so what do you do about it? “If any of you lack wisdom, let his ask of God” – you turn to God with faith he will provide answers or peace or confidence to dispel doubt.

So, from that perspective, doubt is a bad thing to hold on to if it is defined as the opposite of faith. And because we find ourselves having doubt, we should take initiative to dispel it by turning to God and asking for the gift of faith so we can walk on water, without doubting what God can do. That process can be a good thing if we can trust God can remove our doubts and we honestly seek to have them taken from us.

I go back and change my prior comments. Doubt is not a good thing, but because of necessity of opposites, doubt exists. When I choose to act to dispel doubt, the process is a good thing and through the mercy of God I can learn new things to dispel my doubts which is a good thing…not doubt itself.

I started a new thread on this issue. let’s continue the discussion there!

[Author]

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