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On Own Now wrote:
…But I will say that I’m not a fan of the celebration of the W&M Handcart Tragedy. I hope that future generations don’t have reenactments of 9/11, for example. W&MHCC was the pioneer equivalent. It should be studied and recognized, but a disaster like that should not be seen as a spiritual event. Most handcart companies arrived in SLC in safety. Most pioneers were not in handcart companies.
I mentioned that the ward I visited this week actually mentioned W&MHCC did cause some people to leave the church. I was glad to hear.And any of you paying attention to my tirades that I occasionally do (and this post is a mini-tirade), one of my main issues is with leadership in the church. And this one event really gets under my skin in that I feel Levi Savage (someone knowledgeable about the trek) was overridden and even chastised by the church leaders – and promises were made that they would be safe. Levi was right and the leaders overriding him caused people to die, lose limbs, and suffer. And then the history we hear about in SS is that “nobody ever spoke bad about it and we all came out with rock solid testimonies.” I respect that some did have them move closer to God, but to tell only one side as if it is THE history is BS.
On Own Now wrote:mom3 wrote:DJ wroet
Quote:I have wondered why the idea of Mormons suffering less hardship is not emphasized more because it could also be said that less hardship could be a sign that they were blessed.
How do you expect us to be defensive if we were blessed? Tragedy and victiming give us strength. If it works for the nightly news, it definitely works for us.
I’m so glad both of you brought this up, DJ and mom… In fact, the mormon migration was HUGELY successful and a wonder of organization. The Church had an annual “Emigration Agent” in charge for that season. There were the Down and Back parties. The handcarts were a tremendous innovation that ended poorly because of bad judgment on the part of those specific participants. There was the perpetual emigration fund. To me, Mormons have never been victims and this was the Magnum Opus of their resolve. They didn’t cower, neither did they stand and fight, but instead they sacrificed all that they had to give and set out in a communal effort; enduring the hardships together, to build something wonderful.With that in mind, we should celebrate, rather than mourn them.
Again, I agree. The focusing on the hardships and specifically the major failure of the pioneers (Martin & Willie) has always bothered me. Living in the east, Pioneer Day is considered by most of us to be a Utah thing. But the reason I honor the pioneers in my own mind is because they did give their all to take the church to a place where it could be safe and thrive (“where none shall come to hurt or make afraid”). Without doing what they did, albeit out of necessity, the major branch of Mormondom today might very well be what we now know as the Community of Christ (I’m not saying that’s necessarily a bad thing, I agree with almost as much of what they espouse as I do with the LDS church). Fact is, all pioneers had it rough, the west was going to be settled anyway, and Mormons were a major part of opening up the west. They built an empire of sorts in the desert – a place nobody else thought was hospitable. And they did it after walking there (even most of the wagon train pioneers walked much of the way) and without mechanized equipment or air conditioning. In my more TBM days I thought I certainly would have joined them had I lived then, but I now question if I would have because they gave so much and I am essentially lazy – I could have been quite happy staying behind in more civilized areas.
LookingHard wrote:On Own Now wrote:…But I will say that I’m not a fan of the celebration of the W&M Handcart Tragedy. I hope that future generations don’t have reenactments of 9/11, for example. W&MHCC was the pioneer equivalent. It should be studied and recognized, but a disaster like that should not be seen as a spiritual event. Most handcart companies arrived in SLC in safety. Most pioneers were not in handcart companies.
I mentioned that the ward I visited this week actually mentioned W&MHCC did cause some people to leave the church. I was glad to hear.And any of you paying attention to my tirades that I occasionally do (and this post is a mini-tirade), one of my main issues is with leadership in the church. And this one event really gets under my skin in that I feel Levi Savage (someone knowledgeable about the trek) was overridden and even chastised by the church leaders – and promises were made that they would be safe. Levi was right and the leaders overriding him caused people to die, lose limbs, and suffer. And then the history we hear about in SS is that “nobody ever spoke bad about it and we all came out with rock solid testimonies.” I respect that some did have them move closer to God, but to tell only one side as if it is THE history is BS.
You also make some good points, LH. I’m not sure the story of the old man saying none of the Martin & Willie companies (who survived) ever left the church is even factual – but I am sure some of them did leave the church. I am also sure that some of the people sent by Brigham Young to other places to settle were sent either because Young wanted them away from him and the center of the church or because they wanted to be away from Young.
Well we can’t blame Hollywood, they tried their best to help our cause, we just couldn’t be saved even on the big screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEtiGAT6lGIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEtiGAT6lGI” class=”bbcode_url”> P.S. Apologies for not spelling wrote correctly, my fingers get ahead of my brain.
Thanks for that input, Shawn. It is important to remember that even we here have very different reactions to and experiences with lots of things dealing with the Church – and that the concept of treks is not inherently bad, even if some common aspects are bad and/or ridiculous. I realized the Trek I went on was awesome not because it was a Trek, but because it was a three-night campout with many great neighbors. It probably would have been better if we had been in the mountains instead of on a desert ranch and gone hiking on scenic trails instead of pulling carts on dusty roads. The pioneerish dances and games were fun, though. My wife and two daughters have been on treks and they had a great experience. They always tell me don’t knock it unless you’ve done it. One daughter is liberal in her politics and church views and she loved trek. I dislike the burying dead babies / bags of flour the most – seems extraordinarily contrived. But like everything in life you take some bad with the good and keep improving. At least three church banned killing live chickens to eat as part of trek. To city folk like my daughters that is downright barbaric but you could argue that part is authentic and teaches that eating meat requires taking life.
The thing I like most about trek is that it teaches appreciation and it teaches soft teenagers they can do hard things and live without Instagram.
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