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I know that what I have to share in the Councils is decent, so the problem does not seem to be the value of the material — it’s the general lack of interest in improving as teachers among the members. And lack of interest or motivation to support the program from Ward leaders. That is all I can really point to, in this case.
It’s sad, and it is probably part of the reason the church experience is so boring for so many people — there is very little passion among the members for teaching. And it shows in our Sunday experience as Mormons.
I’ve sort of settled on the idea that if I were ever a Bishop (not something I expect to happen, or want to happen at this point in my life), the minimum I need to do is to just keep the meetings going, make sure people pay their tithing as best I can to fund the church, and deal with the welfare and staffing issues and stuff that rolls down from the Stake and Region etcetera. Everything else — like quality — is extremely optional.
It’s sad, but the temporal things tend to be more important, and elicit stronger motivation from leaders — the other stuff — well, it’s nice to have, but if it doesn’t occur, no big deal. There is no direct accountability for it built into the system.
Anyway, I did write an email to the Bpric proposing the next five dates for Teachers Council in the new year. Since I was writing, I did indicate that even though we held it twice in a row (only one person attended the first one in late November because I mentioned it when getting chalk in the library), the only people who came were people who we grabbed in the hall at the last minute. And that I would like to suggest the ward council “expand their efforts to get their teachers there” so it’s a good use of time. It was a very soft bit of encouragement to do better.
One Bpric member wrote back saying thanks for the information. The others didn’t respond.
I guess if the ward wants to be mediocre, I’m going to let them be mediocre. If no one shows, then I have an excuse to sequester myself in the teacher’s council room and read a book in peace….that’s not so bad. I still get points for contributing to the Ward. Maybe I’ll bring my computer and get some work done.
Quote:it’s the general lack of interest in improving as teachers among the members. And lack of interest or motivation to support the program from Ward leaders.
Do you think if the church offered free piano lessons so that members could play the hymns better it would get a better response?
Because of the unique structure of our church most of us end up doing stuff we have no interest or motivation in. We do it out of obligation. How many talks in church about accepting a calling begin with someone who got something they didn’t want, knew nothing about, but did it anyway.
People who want to learn something go learn it. Free or a for a fee.
Also – some of us, no matter how many classes we go to, may not be gifted in a certain area. Just last week I was in the ward library and a friend of mine was stressing about teaching. She’d been called, she’d accepted the call, she’d attended the training – and felt even less capable. Her heart was motivated and scared #$%^-less. What is she to do?
I have family members who never edge the lawn the way I want. I can demonstrate, yell, take them on neighborhood tours to show them my vision. Nothing changes. They try, or don’t try and the battle wages. After many years I have decided to find the joy in their vision of the job that I can. Then when they are all moved out, I am hiring a professional team, since it seems to mean that much to me.
I would like to see people who are good at, and passionate about speaking AND/OR teaching do itinerant work in the church. Move them around into different Wards so every now and then you get a really good teacher. Or a really good speaker. mom3 wrote:Do you think if the church offered free piano lessons so that members could play the hymns better it would get a better response?
Have you priced piano lessons? Pianist and organist are sort of specialized callings; you can’t just grab somebody at random, hand them the piano lesson pack from the ward library and tell them they need to be ready to play in Sacrament Meeting in two weeks. Enlarging the pool of people who have the qualifications long before it becomes a crisis is never a bad idea, especially since that gives them more time to get good at it…and has the bonus effect of having someone who can at least do a chord accompaniment for the opening hymn in more meetings.
SilentDawning wrote:I would like to see people who are good at, and passionate about speaking AND/OR teaching do itinerant work in the church. Move them around into different Wards so every now and then you get a really good teacher. Or a really good speaker.
In theory that’s what the high council does. Of course I recognize that such is far from always being the case, but I will toot by SP’s horn a bit here – he truly does encourage us to speak and teach well and he’s not afraid to point out when we do well or when we could improve (doing well publicly, improve privately). He almost always has something good to say about one (or more) of our lessons or talks in our meetings. Frankly I think our group of HCs does quite well at this. His basic counsel to us is focus on the Savior and stay away from speculative subjects.
NightSG wrote:mom3 wrote:Do you think if the church offered free piano lessons so that members could play the hymns better it would get a better response?
Have you priced piano lessons? Pianist and organist are sort of specialized callings; you can’t just grab somebody at random, hand them the piano lesson pack from the ward library and tell them they need to be ready to play in Sacrament Meeting in two weeks. Enlarging the pool of people who have the qualifications long before it becomes a crisis is never a bad idea, especially since that gives them more time to get good at it…and has the bonus effect of having someone who can at least do a chord accompaniment for the opening hymn in more meetings.
Yep. I sense a trend that less kids are playing. We don’t really have a “bench” of organists like we seem to have already have. We really have 1 couple that both play well, but they are almost inactive except for at least one of them showing up to play each week.Quote:I would like to see people who are good at, and passionate about speaking AND/OR teaching do itinerant work in the church. Move them around into different Wards so every now and then you get a really good teacher. Or a really good speaker.
SD – I am not against that in the least. My mom took endless hours to teach me public speaking. If that wasn’t enough, she arranged tutors to improve her work. I took classes in it. It is a skill that refines by effort, training, etc. Believe me we have GA’s that need it. I think your desire is not bad or even off. My reply was connected to the tough reality we face as a church. My friends in other churches select what they will do. Everyone from the Pastor down has a stake in the outcome. If he is lousy his congregation boots him. Likewise with the other positions. It also allows the desire that you mentioned earlier to motivate them to attend extra classes and to study techniques. We don’t have that.
I also tried to show how we have members who do want to improve. The example of my friend, her challenge increases because is she is also the PTO President, has kids to raise, a husband who is an specialized pediatrician. Her time is full. If she went to my neighbors church she could sign up to be part of something she could more skillfully contribute to until she felt ready to add public teaching to her plate.
Piggy Backing on DJ’s comment
Quote:In theory that’s what the high council does.
Maybe you could start choosing to substitute when the teacher is in town and demonstrate technique. Or send tips in emails. Start a youtube channel with your tips in it. Make a ted-talk type thing. Let them see an enthusiastic LDS teacher doing the job. You have some great ideas, be inventive, help them out. That is what a good teacher does.
Night SG –
Quote:Have you priced piano lessons? Pianist and organist are sort of specialized callings; you can’t just grab somebody at random, hand them the piano lesson pack from the ward library and tell them they need to be ready to play in Sacrament Meeting in two weeks. Enlarging the pool of people who have the qualifications long before it becomes a crisis is never a bad idea, especially since that gives them more time to get good at it…and has the bonus effect of having someone who can at least do a chord accompaniment for the opening hymn in more meetings.
Sounds great to me. It would take a mental overhaul to have it happen on a large scale. I have a friend who is skilled in piano and organ and she is so sick of “having only those callings” but she is good so she is the go-to girl.
My point was even if we had free lessons in piano I am willing to bet the same result SD has experienced would play out. Most of my ward
tookpiano as a kid. If we are in a pinch they can play the right hand sort of on a few hymns. Very few as adults continued practicing. They had other things come up. A free set of lessons wouldn’t change that. Volunteerism is the only way to change that in our present church environment. LookingHard wrote:NightSG wrote:mom3 wrote:Do you think if the church offered free piano lessons so that members could play the hymns better it would get a better response?
Have you priced piano lessons? Pianist and organist are sort of specialized callings; you can’t just grab somebody at random, hand them the piano lesson pack from the ward library and tell them they need to be ready to play in Sacrament Meeting in two weeks. Enlarging the pool of people who have the qualifications long before it becomes a crisis is never a bad idea, especially since that gives them more time to get good at it…and has the bonus effect of having someone who can at least do a chord accompaniment for the opening hymn in more meetings.
Yep. I sense a trend that less kids are playing. We don’t really have a “bench” of organists like we seem to have already have. We really have 1 couple that both play well, but they are almost inactive except for at least one of them showing up to play each week.We likewise have a dearth of musically trained people. We have two pianists in the ward, neither of which play or desire to learn to play the organ, and neither of which are especially talented. We tend to sing the same hymns over and over again. Sometimes we get missionaries who can and do play. One of the pianists is in the RSP and plays there. Primary uses recorded music (bluetooth speaker). We also have a dearth of youth, none of which are piano students.
The church does have that program, but that’s not something that’s going to fix our problem in two weeks (or two months). I hadn’t actually considered that the bishop could “call” someone to teach some basic simplified hymns to some people. I’m not actually sure either of our current pianists is all that capable of teaching, but one is a bit more talented than the other. Our former organist, transferred because of work, would have done something like that – he was an all in kind of guy.
mom3 wrote:My point was even if we had free lessons in piano I am willing to bet the same result SD has experienced would play out.
Likely because they’d schedule them at 9AM on a weekday, then complain that only elderly retired people ever show up.
NightSG wrote:mom3 wrote:My point was even if we had free lessons in piano I am willing to bet the same result SD has experienced would play out.
Likely because they’d schedule them at 9AM on a weekday, then complain that only elderly retired people ever show up.
Or 7 am Sunday….
Quote:NightSG wrote:
mom3 wrote:
My point was even if we had free lessons in piano I am willing to bet the same result SD has experienced would play out.
Likely because they’d schedule them at 9AM on a weekday, then complain that only elderly retired people ever show up.
Or 7 am Sunday….
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: On that note I will head off and practice Silent Night.
Quote:
SD – I am not against that in the least. My mom took endless hours to teach me public speaking. If that wasn’t enough, she arranged tutors to improve her work. I took classes in it. It is a skill that refines by effort, training, etc. Believe me we have GA’s that need it. I think your desire is not bad or even off. My reply was connected to the tough reality we face as a church. My friends in other churches select what they will do. Everyone from the Pastor down has a stake in the outcome. If he is lousy his congregation boots him. Likewise with the other positions. It also allows the desire that you mentioned earlier to motivate them to attend extra classes and to study techniques. We don’t have that.Nope — the top down method of management is an artifact of the 50’s in my view. I don’t consider it inspired any longer. It puts people in positions that sap the joy of being a member, encourages mediocrity, frustrates leaders, and makes for poor quality overall.
I like Ray’s point that they crafted this position for me (I am not sure if they actually did that, as the Stake has been emphasizing it), but it was finally a calling I could accept with some enthusiasm. Just sad there are so few people that care about improving.
It’s one thing to have bad quality because people have insufficient resources or training. It’s another thing to have poor quality because people don’t want to improve.
It makes me wonder if being a member of the church will ever be worth the 10% tithing they expect. I know the purpose of tithing is not supposed to be reciprocity for benefits received, but after 20 years of boredom with the experience, it’s hard for me to see the value that paying all that money provides to me, other than dubious promises of “fire insurance” or other invisible blessings…
Anyway, this isn’t about tithing, it’s about teaching quality. I think we’ve established that the membership as a whole has little passion for it, except for a few people in each ward. Too bad so much of our work on Sunday is based on teaching…
Quote:My point was even if we had free lessons in piano I am willing to bet the same result SD has experienced would play out.
Likely because they’d schedule them at 9AM on a weekday, then complain that only elderly retired people ever show up.
Or 7 am Sunday….
Because the person that can do it is already too busy with life and other callings that keep them at church most of the day on Sunday and that’s the only time slot they have available.
SilentDawning wrote:It’s one thing to have bad quality because people have insufficient resources or training. It’s another thing to have poor quality because people don’t want to improve.
Let’s say you live on a farm and have two kittens, one a beaver (the babies are called kittens, I checked), one a cat. Both are young an inexperienced. You want to build two dams on the farm and task each kitten with building a dam. Over time the beaver learns how to build a dam and excels, meanwhile the cat has made no progress at all.
You have another job for the kittens. There are two areas on the farm that are overrun with mice. You task each kitten with cleaning up the rodent infestation. Over time the cat learns how to hunt mice and the rodent problem is nearly eradicated, meanwhile the beaver has made no progress at all.
A cat likely isn’t going to want to improve their dam building skills and a beaver likely isn’t going to want to improve their mice hunting skills. Who’s to blame, the beaver and the cat or the farmer for making the assignment? Keeping in mind that the farmer is learning on the job too.
I depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. If you want two dams and you have a beaver and a cat you’re going to have to wait until the beaver gets done with one dam before it can move on to building the second. In the interim you just have to do without. If you want to clear up the rodent infestation you’re going to have to wait until the cat is done in one area of the farm before it can move on to the second. In the interim you just have to accept that there’s going to be a rodent problem. If the goal is to keep the beaver and the cat busy, why not make assignments that are more in line with their abilities?
At church there’s an expectation that
anyonecan (or should) be a teacher, not the “by example” type of teacher, the get up in front of people, formal type of teacher. I don’t think that’s everyone’s passion, it’s hard to blame people for not being enthusiastic to do something that they were conscripted into doing, let alone for not having the desire to get better at it. So where is the failing, with the individual members or the leaders making the assignments? Remembering that the leaders are just as inexperienced and can be like cats assigned to build dams even in leadership callings. At church there will always be square pegs in round holes.
It depends on the goal you are trying to achieve. Is it running an efficient organization? Is it quality instruction? Is it giving the beaver and the cat
somethingto do instead of lying in the sun all day? (I’m looking at you, cat) If the goal is to build two dams maybe you let the beaver build one but take care of building the second dam yourself – meaning we get what we can out of church instruction, recognizing its limitations, and supplement that with things outside of church that reach us better. Yeah, it makes for some super boring instruction at church, last Sunday both lessons were of the read directly from the manual, ask people to restate it in their own words variety. But I tend to look at the instructor and think, there but for the grace of god go I, meaning “thank goodness it’s not my turn to teach.”
nibbler wrote:At church there’s an expectation that
anyonecan (or should) be a teacher, not the “by example” type of teacher, the get up in front of people, formal type of teacher. I don’t think that’s everyone’s passion, it’s hard to blame people for not being enthusiastic to do something that they were conscripted into doing, let alone for not having the desire to get better at it. So where is the failing, with the individual members or the leaders making the assignments? Remembering that the leaders are just as inexperienced and can be like cats assigned to build dams even in leadership callings. At church there will always be square pegs in round holes.
This.
Currently, I’m working on building up three main skills outside of my career experience, and one of those is piano. The other two aren’t of any real use to the Church, (unless they need a Rubik’s Cube solved or an unarmed bodyguard) and that one is only because it’s something I’ve been meaning to get back to for 30 years; it could just as easily have been solving some other sort of puzzle that confounded me decades ago and I’ve decided to master now. Dividing up my available learning time even further is not practical, and I would decline any calling that would require me to take time away from one of those before I reach a level where I feel comfortable reducing the practice time.
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