Social Conunddrum

[AmyJ]

Thank you all for the support you have given me.

My husband is an introvert, and it takes a lot to pull him into socializing. I am more of an extrovert than he is, but I am still an introvert. We have an 8 year old daughter who tends to be on the introvert side, but struggles with non-verbal communication and social skills – best practiced in social situations (theoretically). There are no reports of disruptive behavior – her deficits are more subtle. When she interacts with kids, she usually does some form of parallel play – appearing to be playing in a group of kids while actually wandering off and doing her own thing either physically or mentally.

Here are the normal social avenues for people to socialize:

Church – We belong to a small branch with only 2 other girls her age (within a year of her). Going to other wards/branches is not really an option because we live out in the country. The other 2 girls are good friends and live in the same general area, so can easily socialize with each other. I have not put together the herculean efforts for further socialization because we live so far out from everyone else and I am not sure my daughter really cares either way right now.

School – My daughter can work with other children more or less. She does not seem to have any specific, consistent friendships among others her age. At times she talks about it wistfully, but then she drifts into other activities and it gets left behind. My daughter is great at talking at people regarding cuttlefish, turtles, owls, animals, fantasy characters, or astronomy – but not so great at talking about shared interests and holding a conversation. Since I work full-time, it is not easy to schedule play dates. If I were to set up play dates when I work, it would require getting my husband to socialize with others so that other parents were comfortable with their children at our house as him being the stay-at-home dad. If I set up play dates outside of my work hours, it requires my husband and daughter being on board with it, and takes away resources I currently utilize elsewhere to benefit the family – it doesn’t help that my parent socialization efforts are stressful and not productive. Also, I could take or leave my daughter imitating some of the children I have seen.

Extra-Curricular Activities – My daughter does not seem to have a lasting interest in extra-curricular activities. We have not come across one that appeared worth the financial budgeting, time, and resources involved. We are not activity people so far.

Adult Interaction/Additional Adult Support – in this area I have had more success. My husband and I utilize experiences every day to explain, teach, and model the best practices of social interaction (being respectful, participating in a conversation, considering what other people are saying and/or want to say, making verbal non-verbal communications etc). We tell her about what we did to survive high school socially – mostly involved being acquaintances with other kids and reading books at every opportunity. My husband played role-playing games and video games. I did some video games and reading. We turned out more or less properly socialized. I tell her about what tricks I have learned to survive socially regularly.

In addition, she has an adopted grandma who has spent decades with children who sneaks her away about once a quarter and works with her. The center that helped us with short-hand descriptions (or learning disability labels – we are talking about inattentive ADHD and/or Non-Verbal Learning Disorder and/or a potential Asperger’s Autism description – there is about 70-80 percent overlap in descriptions between the 3, and really it boils down to which party you talk to when you get a description) also provides some counseling/CBT therapy that my daughter enjoys greatly. I am sticking to my guns and involving her in this activity because she values it highly and it is not causing harm, with some improvements that can be attributed to this activity. My husband could leave it because he doesn’t think it is making any improvements, but he supports me setting it up and making it happen. Her Primary leaders love her, and she seems to recognize they have a relationship with her and enjoys some of Primary. Our R.S. President is aware of some of the situation (has worked in the Montessori school system for years), and has agreed to help me with IEP’s and advocating with the schools when we get that far.

Here are my questions:

1. In your opinion, am I doing enough to ensure my daughter has the opportunities she needs for now?

2. Are there other facets I have not mentioned that bear additional consideration?

Other thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Is your daughter on the Autism Spectrum or only introverted?

That makes a difference in the response. My son is an Aspie. Your part about mirroring what others are doing but actually doing her own thing was/is very common for him. He is an adult now and has developed some skills to help that.

The immediate answer I would have is “Don’t worry” she is 8. We evolve and change a lot. The best gift you can give her is you. Even if it’s just being available to her.

I think you have it covered.

Embrace your introvert. It’s a gift from God. A calm if you would in a sea of extroverts.

[Anonymous]

Her behavior sounds a lot like Asperger’s Syndrome (especially in having no problem talking at people about a select range of subjects). I have quite a few friends with it and while it does make it difficult for many of them to be social, they manage just fine. There were actually a bunch on this other forum I used to regular and one of my IRL Aspie friends (who happens to be in my ward, but I knew him growing up) is in like 5 different online D&D groups. At 8, she’s probably a bit young to have an online presence, but maybe when she’s 13 or so, you could help her find some forums about her interests or something like that. It’s not the same as face-to-face interaction, but perhaps it’s a good outlet. It also takes off the pressure of having to read people quickly… well because you don’t have to read people at all.

I wouldn’t worry about it. You might have to be a bit more explicit in teaching her how to read people, but it’s not like she’s stupid or anything. Aspies are usually very intelligent; they just struggle with seeing things from other people’s point of view. For instance, my one IRL friend will often bring up a subject he was talking about 5 minutes ago and pick up from an unusual place, not realizing that I wasn’t on the same train of thought as him.

You also don’t know for sure. She could just be an introvert. Either way, there’s nothing to worry about. Let her live her life and watch how things develop.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all comments so far.

We don’t know if she has Asperger’s Autism/is on the Autistic Spectrum yet. The most recent description is inattentive ADHD (inherited from her dad) and Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (being led through life with words – some experts consider it a valid, though milder or less obvious presentation of Asperger’s Autism – and others will fight tooth and nail that it is its own entity and shares nothing with Asperger’s Autism.) We were given a “rule-out” description of Asperger’s Autism as something to look into in upcoming years – and we see facets of it more often now. The older she gets, the more obvious it is that she operates in her own world and the developmental delays in social skills and non-verbal communication are more apparent. However, she is very smart so does decently in schooling and does not cause problems at school, so is mostly under the radar. Her social deficits are obvious if you look at what 8 year old girls are socially capable of doing. But her social interactions are within acceptable limits of what 8 year olds in general are socially capable of doing IF you realize that there are average 8 year old boys who act similarly to how she acts.

In researching the rule-out diagnosis of Asperger’s Autism for my daughter, I found myself looking in the mirror in terms of assets and deficits. This launched me into a faith transition – since the entire framework of my life was being redefined by a shared list of traits/features/struggles with others that had a real name (not “some kind of dsylexia” as my dad taught me), my relationships with God and church came under my personal scrutiny as well.

[Anonymous]

1. You are doing enough! You obviously love and care for your daughter and family. That will always be enough.

2. I would second the idea of getting support from the public school where you live. You can call the school, ask to speak with the speech/language pathologist, then request that your daughter be tested to see if she qualifies for intervention at school. Speech therapists are trained to help with the social aspects of communication and routinely provide that sort of therapy. Some schools will even have a social skills group. School-based intervention is free and if started at an early age can be very effective. I wouldn’t wait and there’s nothing to lose with having her tested. PM me if you have any questions about it.

[Anonymous]

Being “different” is a major issue in all “conforming” cultures. It is good that you are aware of this issue and are tackling it proactively.

I don’t have time now for a more extended response, but I want you to know I understand and respect what you are doing. You are a good parent.

[Anonymous]

I agree with what has been said.

We are having my son evaluated for being on the autism spectrum. He can be very successful with the correct supports. We have currently developed relationships with teachers and school administrators to help advocate for him and provide this support. As he moves into middle school it is a different environment where this heavy parental involvement would be frowned upon. We feel that we need some supports that are spelled out in his school file to keep everyone on the same page. Maybe he would need a quiet environment for testing or the ability to use a single stall restroom. If providing those supports could make the difference between success and failure then why not provide them.

It seems that you are doing your very best supporting, caring, and advocating for your family. As parents (and people) we make imperfect decisions with incomplete information. If you do so with a healthy dose of love, your children will feel it. Keep up the good work.

[Anonymous]

I think you’ve received some good responses. You seem like a wonderful parent and i suspect your daughter is doing so well because of the things you’re doing.

I’m a mental health professional. I feel your description of your daughter’s behaviors sound more like high functioning ASD than ADHD-inattentive type. Obviously, dx require many other pieces of data, but it sounds like there are at least enough indicators to warrant requesting an assessment from your school. They may balk because your daughter isn’t misbehaving and is probably getting good grades. Nevertheless, she might greatly benefit from pragmatic language therapy and social skill training, as well as possible functional adaptive skill training. The school psychologist and speech language pathologist at your school should be able to adequately assess her eligibility for these services, which as someone mentioned, are free in public schools. They may not need to assess much more as it sounds like you’ve already had someone evaluate her.

I can give you more information and help through private message if you’re interested.

(I’ll try to remember to check here more often).

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Cnsl1 wrote:

I’m a mental health professional. I feel your description of your daughter’s behaviors sound more like high functioning ASD than ADHD-inattentive type. Obviously, dx require many other pieces of data, but it sounds like there are at least enough indicators to warrant requesting an assessment from your school.

Our current theory is that she is dealing with both descriptions.

1) She can hyper-focus: When she was 9 months old, she learned to crawl so she could crawl from one board book to the next for hours on end and appear to be “reading” them (when she wasn’t chewing on them). Before then, she understood intellectually the process of crawling, but had no desire to practice.

2) Emotional Regulation: My daughter unmedicated acts more often as if she is younger than she is (becomes unglued at situations/transitions that a 5-6 year old would have problems with, but not a 7-8 year old) while utilizing a vocabulary several grades higher then her grade level. Medicated, her behavior is more developmentally age appropriate. When she is medicated, her actions are more reasoned and less instinctual (prone to meltdowns/internalizing as anxiety).

3) Physical Regulation: Medicated, she manages her body control better. I feel that I can entrust our 15 month old into her lap or into hugs without anyone getting hurt.

The funny thing is that when she is medicated, ASD-like symptoms are more obvious (she has to organize things a specific way, there is a lot of black and white thinking, the trademark “perfection or die” approach to life thinking…)

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