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So I’ve been thinking about the decision to leave the church or not. On the one hand, leaving the church would relieve me of the stress associated with many things that frustrate me. It would also put my anger and frustration into action (a very positive use of anger) rather than just in empty words. It also might be that I could be a very spiritual agnostic, or buddhist, or something else. But let me present some arguments for staying that maybe people haven’t thought of. One of the things I complain most about in Mormonism is the groupthink, lack of individuality, and other problems associated with large groups. I have been reading
The Wisdom of Crowdsby James Surowiecki and I have learned a lot about what makes groups wise, and what makes groups dumb. Wise groups embrace diversity of thought, independence in opinion, mutual understanding and respect, do not give special weight to “experts” (priesthood leaders), challenge “conventional wisdom” (gays, church history), etc. Dumb groups encourage conformity, obedience, organizational structure, relying on “experts” (priesthood leaders), and following silly tradition. In this light, I pose the question? Where better for a disaffected Mormon to embrace the ideals associated with growth and development, diversity of thought, challenge convention etc. than within Mormonism? That is to say, if I leave, I will be tempted to associate myself with a group of people that believe the same way I do. But as I just illustrated this results in the typical problems associated with groups. So the very thing I complain about in Mormonism, could haunt me if I leave. I could potentially be guilty of the same thing of which I am accusing TBMs. Within Mormonism I am different, bring diversity to the table, challenge the status quo, and while it may not be welcome, in the long run it is for the better of the church and my fellows, and most importantly, myself.
One of the most important concepts I came across in my journey has been cognitive dissonance. Dissonance is absolutely required in order for us to have even come down this path of disaffection. That is, each of us (I assume), at some point said “hey, you know what, I might not be right, the church might not be what I thought it was” and hence paved the way for new light and knowledge (along with pain and suffering). A healthy amount of cog dis is essential for us to continue to learn and grow. It keeps us humble and this is what allows us to become comfortable with paradox. Of course too much cog dis leads to where each of us is now, but honestly, in retrospect, does anyone wish they could go back to TBM?
I guess what I’m saying is that maybe, just maybe, staying in the church in a disaffected, non-TBM, heterodox state provides the right amount of diversity of thought, cog dis, individuality (as long as we remain true blue buffet Mormons), and the other elements of proper group wisdom.
For me this is a stretch, as I even sound to myself like I’m making excuses. But that is the anger and frustration talking.
What think ye?
I think that is an amazing discovery. Thanks for sharing. From a conversation on Mormon Matters in January: Quote:Q: How do we help those who may feel like a minority in the church feel fully welcome and valued as a part of the group? How do we keep the majority from driving out the minority?
Stephen Wellington: By increasing cohesiveness in a group it will correspondingly decrease groupthink, censorship, and all other negative aspects of majority influence & even the negative aspects of minority influence. It will also increase authentic dissent which will help to moderate the group.
Over time, if not exposed to a moderating influence, groups gradually become more radical as they base their ideal behaviour on their commonly held values. A minority group can help to moderate this shift towards radicalism/fundamentalism.In addition, groups that also have a strong cultural element….as does the Mormon church…are exposed to groupthink and the negative things that come along with it such as suppression of information, devotion to leaders over principles, stereotyping outgroups, belief in inherent morality, direct pressure on dissenters, self-censorship, illusions of invulnerability, self appointed ‘mind guards’ and illusions that the group is infact unanimous when it most likely isn’t.
In the church, those who rise through the ranks are those who show a commitment to the group’s ideals/values…which means that those people often do not represent the overall distribution of views within the church.
I see individuals in the church leadership as trying to encourage cohesion but I also see certain reactionaries and radicals within the group that have openly discouraged dialogue and the recognition of various groups within mormonism.
Exposing a minority to the unanimous majority can influence the minority to comply but also to appreciate the majority. Exposure to a minority leads to re-appraisal and a more open minded consideration of alternatives on the part of the majority.
If the majority does not actively try to keep the minorities we will most likely lose them.
MAC: On the practical side, my experience is that disunity can be ameliorated to a great degree by just a few individuals on a unit level. Call them bridgers, but they are members of either the majority or the minority who, for what ever reason, are capable of comfortably interacting and fellowshipping across social barriers and make a conscious effort to do so. Obviously it would be better if everyone were involved, but just a few can get most of the job done.
Not a lot to add, but I feel it’s critical to moderate those radical influences, and I agree with Stephen’s points.
Yes, I think you’re really hitting on something. I glanced a similar insight several months ago when I realized I wasn’t staying in the church so it could “make” me a better person; likewise I wasn’t staying “in spite” of any negative influences. When I realized I was staying so I could truly have opportunities for personal growth everything began to look a little differently to me. I really like how you said: “if I leave, I will be tempted to associate myself with a group of people that believe the same way I do. But as I just illustrated this results in the typical problems associated with groups. So the very thing I complain about in Mormonism, could haunt me if I leave. “I think there is a lot of wisdom in that. We grow when we are challenged, I don’t see the goal in life to remove all the challenges.
Personally, I am beginning to see a lot of growth in different corners of the church as well. I see that members don’t all think alike, and they never have. I’m finding I had false impressions in this regard as well as along some other historical and doctrinal issues.
Yes, I’m glad I stepped “out of the box”, if God is truly concerned about our growth and gaining knowledge/wisdom then he is happy about it too I’m sure. There may be many false traditions in the church, but because they exist we have even more opportunities to grow as we seek for and gain truth and light. My faith/hope is that the Mormon tradition is truly ultimately concerned with factual physical truth as well as subjective spiritual “truths”. It may not always seem like it, but as I look for examples I do find some confirmation. The introduction of the BoM is now changed to read “among” the ancient inhabitants of America instead of the “principal ancestors”; this and other things like it give me hope that physical facts are not ultimately rejected just because they seem to conflict with the traditional line of thought. They give me hope that we do accept “many things will yet be revealed” even if they’re revealed through scientific research as well as spiritual revelation. I love that Joseph Smith said “Mormonism IS truth” I take that to mean it is defined by truth — if it’s not true it’s false doctrine. Let’s not be afraid of false doctrine on our path to true Mormonism. Of course we also need to be humble about our “knowledge” where things are not black/white, which is virtually everywhere; but keep our “holy curiosity” and be willing to accept truth wherever it is revealed.
Thanks for sharing the insight!
I think that’s a key insight, frankly. I think the Church needs to continue to be pruned – but not of all who have heterodox views. Those views aren’t the bitter fruit too many members assume them to be.
I
LOVEElder Wirthlin’s “Concern for the one” talk from last year. I want all the instruments in the orchestra – and the Church and its members are poorer when only the piccolos can be heard. It’s hard, but we need to stay LDS as much for everyone else as for ourselves. Once I saw my participation as both a chance to learn AND to serve, most of the issues shifted to the “how” – and I discovered the real power of the Sermon on the Mount, and especially the Beatitudes. What Ray said. That view made all the difference. I think you are on a workable path. It just can’t be filled with resentment or anger about staying. You have to become truly comfortable with you different beliefs and viewpoints, to the level where you don’t have a compulsion to leap up and tell everyone they are wrong hehe (even if they are). The Spirit will guide you. You know, I also had the impression to suggest you really do visit a few other faith communities. You talked about alternatives, and you made a good point. Visit some other churches and worship with them. See for yourself. I’ve done some of that. You know what? Mormonism is very comfortable for me. If nothing else, I am just used to it. That is where I was raised. There are great highlights and serious flaws for me in other faith traditions. I learn from seeing the myths presented by other people.
@Valoel I think I will try it. I’ve been to a Catholic mass, once. That’s it.
jmb275 wrote:Within Mormonism I am different, bring diversity to the table, challenge the status quo, and while it may not be welcome, in the long run it is for the better of the church and my fellows, and most importantly, myself.
I myself am coming to realize that this truly is the “high road” so to speak. It is the unselfish path that many other moderate mormons are hoping we will choose because of the positive influence we can have on those around us at church.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Stephen Wellington: By increasing cohesiveness in a group it will correspondingly decrease groupthink, censorship, and all other negative aspects of majority influence & even the negative aspects of minority influence. It will also increase authentic dissent which will help to moderate the group.
Over time, if not exposed to a moderating influence, groups gradually become more radical as they base their ideal behaviour on their commonly held values. A minority group can help to moderate this shift towards radicalism/fundamentalism.
This makes so much sense to me.
I’m just so unsure whether or not I have it in me for the long term due to the amount of sacrifice that it requires. For the first time in my life I actually wish that I lived somewhere where the church is huge so that I could be a bit less involved without drawing too much attention the way I will here. It could be really unfeasible to try to be a “buffet” mormon in my ward. Sigh.
On a more positive note, congrats jmb for sticking a pinky toe into what looks like stage 5.
Thank you asha. The road is still long ahead, and like you there are good days and bad days. But progress is being made! Deep down on some level, I have always enjoyed being a little bit different. I think that is one way that I find positive interaction with the group-think culture of many people within Mormonism (not everyone is like this, but all groups have groupies). I get a little thrill out of pushing the comfort level just a little bit, and making people squirm a little at times. I’m have a small devious streak like that, but in Church I am always positive. So I am not an enemy or outsider causing problems. I was thinking about this when I re-read your post. You were talking about us less-orthodox people being the yeast fermenting the dough of a diverse LDS community. I think that is a positive way to see our role.
@Valoel My secret confession is that I’m exactly the same way. I enjoy being slightly unorthodox, and I enjoy being different politically as well. But don’t tell anyone, you’ll blow my cover
I want to just add to the above quotes. I tend to do this as well, always with the in-laws it seems .. giving dumb ( well unorthadox ) opinion. We were all out to dinner and the subject of premarital sex came up. I mentioned to my 25 year old SIL that condoms would be fun to put in her pinata ( for her Birthday party ) to encourage safe sex. Sorry I just like to be realistic .. if heaven forbid abstinence doesnt work out, at least push safe sex too. No one agreed with me .. I still stood my ground though..And got chewed out by DH after.
That is just one minor example of many … Honestly it is just who I am. I push buttons, I have my own thoughts.. Not to mention I think I’m hilarious most of the time ( which really gets me in trouble ). My DH has always known I question and ponder and redefine everything ( Deep down I know he must – Even if he wouldnt like to admit it ) .. knows I’m a free spirit. I KNOW my inlaws must know this .. I’ve said too many off the wall ( maybe in their eyes ) things to be taken as orthadox.
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