Home Page › Forums › General Discussion › Someday, I will prove that the Church is True – and False
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May 24, 2010 at 4:38 pm #205052
Anonymous
GuestEverything was more black and white when I was younger – and I see that in the Church, as well. Everyone was a convert in the beginning, even Joseph Smith in a very real way, and I believe much of what drives some people nuts about the way that early Church leaders taught things that we no longer teach is no more than the maturation process that is unavoidable in mortality as we learn and grow and realize how much we really don’t know. (or, at least, that I wish was unavoidable – I have known some people and organizations that simply refuse to mature.)
All of you who participate here probably realize I don’t see our changing understanding over time as a bad thing in the long run but instead as the pruning of the vineyard, but I also should make it crystal clear that I also don’t see any great, seismic shift in the CORE principles and doctrines of the Restoration. We still believe in a Great Apostasy, the restoration of the priesthood that can administer eternally binding ordinances for all of mankind, the reality of multiple prophetic sources and on-going revelation – both collective and personal – in all its messy glory, the centrality of Jesus in the Plan of Salvation as our Savior and Redeemer, the primacy of work-produced fruits over work-less belief, the importance of establishing and serving in the Kingdom of God on earth, the eternal potential to become like God, and on and on and on. I don’t think we have abandoned – or even altered significantly – any of the Articles of Faith. How we express and practice each of these core principles and doctrines has vacillated from time to time as we struggle to see through our glass less darkly, but the core principles themselves haven’t changed in ways that I would classify as significant.
I think it’s interesting that when I was most active on multiple Mormon-themed blogs I was classified as a believer on Mormon Matters, a conservative generally on Feminist Mormon Housewives, mostly conservative on By Common Consent and Times & Seasons, simply verbose on Trash Calls, insightful but occasionally heretical on Mormon Momma, a humorist at Mormon Mommy Wars, etc.
I think I am classified in each case in comparison to the general tone of the blog, which I believe is relevant to this post in an important way.I don’t really care how I’m classified, since I know I am a “faithful member” (even though many of my veiws are heterodox) – and that’s all that really matters to me. I accept that 20-50 years from now members might read what I have written and agree, disagree, laugh or have any other reaction. My words might be dissected, if anyone even reads them, to prove how wrong the Church is – because someone in my position of local leadership was so badly mistaken; they might be read to show how right the Church is – because someone like me was correct. I have no idea how my words will be used, if they are used at all, but,
if they are used at all, I’m fairly certain they will fill both roles – as “proof” that the Church was right by some and wrong by others. That’s just the nature of the human beast. I’m just doing my best to explain (and evaluate) my own muddle in the middle as I make my way through life.
May 24, 2010 at 9:47 pm #231331Anonymous
GuestThe core issue with regard to the LDS religion being God’s ONLY vehicle to administer “saving ordinances” through the “priesthood” is this: was Joseph Smith really called by God? I don’t believe that he was- for a number of reasons that we have read about. There are other reasons besides the historical ones that I believe are evident as well. IMO the proof is everywhere. I StayLDS because my wife is still a believer and I want to support her in her belief- even though I think that most of the doctrines are heretical and man-made. I believe that many LDS doctrines impede your ability to find the peace we can claim in Christ. I do however feel strongly that LDS members or members of any organized religion will be “credited” for their good works even if it turns out they believed in heretical teachings and practices. God judges us by our intentions and our hearts- how can I judge a mormon or a catholic harshly when the really believe that they are following God? I just believe they are making it unduly hard on themselves. Salvation is easy. The yoke is easy. Life is hard enough without needing to question your worthiness every day. All we have to question is the condition of our hearts- Christ stands ready to BE our worthiness. Because I have no faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet I also do not believe most of the things you mentioned as core doctrines: Complete Apostacy, necessity a restoration of authority, the BofM, “saving” ordinances (an oxymoron imo), etc
The gospel only makes complete sense and one can only be at real peace once you let go of the idea that faith in any religion or man is essential to your salvation IMO. If you truly are brokenhearted and believe in Christ and love him each day- the works automatically follow. They become a bi-product of your love for Him because of the change that occurs in your heart as you hand your will over to Him each day. It’s the most amazing way to live IMO. The rest of it- whatever any religion wants to put on us as a necessity to obtain salvation is just inconsequential stuff. If you like doing all those other things because it fits your personality type- then go for it. If you don’t- then let it go. That’s my version on the “buffet mormon” idea. But I feel it is far more peaceful to do it with FULL confidence that those extra religious works are really irrelevant to your salvation. Or if you believe they are necessary- then do it in FULL faith!! Romans 14:23 …”whatsoever is not of faith is sin”.
If you have real faith in Christ and believe that his atonement perfects you COMPLETELY each day (Stephen Robinson), then the rest of the stuff is just fluff. Faith in ordinances, prophets, temple, WofW, restoration, priesthood and the rest of it- is all a matter of personal choice and has NO bearing on your personal salvation. I believe that THAT is the freedom in Christ the God wants for us. It’s a bit scarier- but so liberating when you believe every day that your salvation is secure as long as you remain broken and exercise faith in Him each day.
StayLDS so you don’t want to upset the apple cart. Stay because you love the people in your ward. Stay because its the community that you are used to. But get Christ first and be willing to let go of all else if it is ever required- because He is the Way. IMO.
May 24, 2010 at 10:47 pm #231332Anonymous
GuestEveryone, please keep the comments focused on the point of the post. May 28, 2010 at 12:28 pm #231333Anonymous
GuestRay- Thanks for you thoughts. I really don’t have anything insightful to add, just wanted to let you know I appreciated the post.
I have never thought much about how my words may or may not be used in the future. Frankly, it has never occurred to me that someone might care at all. However, I do hope that my words are used as a portal to who I am as a person. For Joseph Smith, I think his words are much more interesting when we use them to try and understand who Joseph was as a person, rather than arguing over their accuracy.
May 30, 2010 at 2:27 am #231334Anonymous
GuestThis I do know: The lifestyle of clean living, a moral lifestyle, living the commandments or however you might call it makes me a better person. It provides for me a standard that I choose to maintain, because when I do, I am more at peace in my heart and feel closer to God. Waver from this and my peace and communion with he divine suffer. I love the community of the saints, the support and encouragement and real service they give one another. It is the best hint of a more perfect world I long for. The Plan of Exaltation is so complex, yet simple at the same time, connecting so many disparate details of the scriptures into a cohesive whole that absolutely awe’s me. That’s the best evidence of the truthfulness the Church and Joseph Smith that I have. I’m not particularly comfortable with the “I know” kinds of statements at testimony meeting, But it is by far the highest good, by a country mile, from anything else out there, IMO.
May 30, 2010 at 8:21 am #231335Anonymous
GuestI don’t think I would ever be used to prove anything about the church other than that it has some interesting characters in it. As far as I believe, there is nothing to prove at all about the church; it’s just a church. Go or don’t go. Enjoy or don’t enjoy. And let others do the same. Nothing to prove to anybody. That sounds like a happy way to live. Tom
May 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm #231336Anonymous
GuestI agree, Tom – but, unfortunately, others still analyze my words and make assumptions about the LDS Church at large from them. I know, because they’ve done it on other sites quite explicitly. It’s that age-old extrapolation of taking something said or done by a local leader (or even an apostle) and assuming it represents what “The Church” teaches – or even demands. It’s natural, I know, but I still find it fascinating.
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