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Yesterday, my wife and I were driving home from my son’s house. We were about 3 hours from home & we got a phone call from a friend from church. He was hysterical. I could hardly understand him.
Then he said: He got up that morning & his wife of 50+ years didn’t. She was dead. Could I come over & give
her a blessing to raise her from the dead?
Some background information:
. They are one of the nicest, sweetest, genuine people you ever could meet.
. He is a convert to the church.
. She never joined. She came to church every Sunday. You would never suspect she wasn’t a member.
. She talked like everyone else. She held callings in the church.
. In every way she was & is LDS, except not being baptized.
As we continued driving home, we had a good conversation regarding our friends & what their family is going through.
For me this raised a number of questions.
1.
What is more important? Going through the rituals of religious life or being a well-rounded Christian? (following the example of Christ’s life).For me, it is more important to be more like Christ then following the rituals. Some are going to say, if we follow the example of Christ,
it will include baptism. I can’t argue with that.
2.
This life is moving so fast. Will we learn everything we need for eternity in this life? Or is there more to come?I believe there is more we learn in eternity. Learning must go on eternally. It’s not just in this life.
First off, I’m sorry for your losses. It’s not easy. It’s not meant to be. I can’t say I’ve ever heard someone ask for a blessing to raise someone from the dead. That ask probably came from a place of deep despair and sadness. I feel for your friend.
1. What is more important? Going through the rituals of religious life or being a well-rounded Christian? (following the example of Christ’s life).There’s a Joseph Smith quote I’ll post from time to time.
Quote:I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm yet deals justice to his neighbors and mercifully deals his substance to the poor, than the long, smooth faced hypocrite.
Now speaking for myself, I see ordinances and rites as things meant to help people orient themselves spiritually, nothing more.
Mormonism and religions in general have taken the rites and ordinances and made them an end unto themselves. In Mormonism we have the scriptures that say Jesus was baptized even though he didn’t need to be because people have to get baptized. We also have the concept of vicarious ordinances. That’s how much stock we place in ordinances being required.
I get the feeling that a god that can raise up children for Abraham from stones can get around some ordinance requirements. Maybe vicarious ordinances in the temple are that mechanism but being completely open and honest with where I’m at, the vicarious ordinances we do in the temple are more for the living than for the dead. By that I mean that doing vicarious ordinances for grandpa puts mom and the grandkids’ mind at ease more than it unlocks a door to any place in an afterlife.
So long story short, I’d rather be in a community of well-rounded Christians without the ordinances than a community that rejected Christlike principles but had their ordinances. Here I’d point out that it’s not a case of either/or. There’s always a healthy mixture of both.
2. This life is moving so fast. Will we learn everything we need for eternity in this life? Or is there more to come?We don’t
trulyknow what eternity looks like so right out of the gate we’ll learn something. I like the model of there always being something to learn. I am sorry for your loss as well. 1. What is more important? Going through the rituals of religious life or being a well-rounded Christian? (following the example of Christ’s life).I will take the “loving-kindness” of “caring for others” [Christians don’t have the monopoly on empathy and compassion – even though LDS culture implies that it does] over the “purity” of “sanctifying rituals” any day of the week. This is a development for me personally within the last 5-7 years – and is a direct result of my faith transition and my path since it started.
Religious rituals are an external source of security and community – you become “one of many” who do those things in that specific way. Humans crave security and community – so it makes sense that those get linked together. And in times of uncertainty and upheaval – it can be valuable to “follow a specific path” in terms of transition management. But our rituals can also cause pain and family feuds because the ritual becomes greater then the family connection.
- Some people may not want Grandpa and Grandma sealed for the next life because of how things sorted themselves out in this life don’t bode well.
- Others may get hurt because our sealing practices have a “separate but equal” flavor while working with “clearances” and “cancellations”. It’s OK for serial monogamy to become polygamy in the next life for men. It is not OK for serial monogamy to become polyandry in the next life for women – which is why our sealing practices make it easier for a man to be sealed to multiple women in the here-and-now and not viable for women at all. NOTE: Some equalization is happening, and I may not be fully up to date on the conversation.
2. This life is moving so fast. Will we learn everything we need for eternity in this life? Or is there more to come?I doubt that the syllabus of Life 101 included everything we’d need for an eternity. It makes more sense if we include some flavor of reincarnation – but still not likely.
Minyan Man wrote:
Some background information:. They are one of the nicest, sweetest, genuine people you ever could meet.
. He is a convert to the church.
. She never joined. She came to church every Sunday. You would never suspect she wasn’t a member.
. She talked like everyone else. She held callings in the church.
. In every way she was & is LDS, except not being baptized.
I’m sorry for your friend’s devastating loss.
I find it interesting that she is not a member of our church.
I think that most traditional explanations of the 3 kingdoms of glory would say that she will inherit the terrestrial but not the celestial. Yet, that does not seem consistent with what Jesus was teaching. In the parable of the Samaritan, there are outwardly religious people that might have been expected to help but instead do not help. Against type, it is the person that was perceived to be the religious enemy of the Hebrew people that helped. I just can’t imagine one of the 12 apostles saying to Jesus, “He sure seems to be a nice guy for a Samaritan, but unless he converts in the afterlife he will be forever limited and excluded from the celestial kingdom.”
To me it sounds like this lovely woman served and sacrificed in LDS settings and contexts without having any duty or obligation.
I believe that the way that we care for one another says more about our proximity to divinity than our religious trappings.
Just a follow up, we received a ward bulletin today, there was no mention of her death. It seems a little cold. Maybe I’m too sensitive.
Another side note: she has been attending our ward every week for years & paying a full tithe even though
she wasn’t a member. I find it very interesting.
I’m sorry to hear of this loss, and I’m sure your friend feels it deeply. 1. What is more important? Going through the rituals of religious life or being a well-rounded Christian? (following the example of Christ’s life).I think trying to be a well rounded Christian (be nice) is far more important than the “covenant path.” Yes, I think the idea of the covenant path might be an aide to being a better Christian, but that’s partly because of the built-in fear of not doing the covenant path. In other words, I think it’s more important to be good because we want to be, not because we are afraid of what will happen otherwise. “Living prophet” aside, the Bible and Book of Mormon really say nothing about this modern iteration of the covenant path (and the argument can be made either way whether even baptism is necessary).
2. This life is moving so fast. Will we learn everything we need for eternity in this life? Or is there more to come? Life seems to move faster the older I get. The answer to the question is I don’t know. I suppose if there really is eternal progression (and I like to think there is) we likely have more to learn.
Here’s where my universalist point of view comes into play: I think your friend’s wife is in very good position. Their bond of living happily for many years is far more important than any ceremony or ritual.
Minyan Man wrote:
Just a follow up, we received a ward bulletin today, there was no mention of her death.It seems a little cold. Maybe I’m too sensitive.
I have a mixed point of view on this. I agree that there should have been some mention, but also acknowledge it could have been an oversight. I served as a counselor to a bishop who didn’t like to make announcements about deaths of ward family members. His reasoning was that if we miss one, even if no one told us because sometimes bishops are expected to be clairvoyant, the family of the person we missed would be offended. This actually happened, in fact (an inactive member no less). So he generally did not announce any deaths of family members. Active ward members were a different story, though, and even if she wasn’t a member but came (we had a lady who loved family history and worked in the library for years but was not a member).
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