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Some Sundays are really easy and church feels familiar and loving and safe. Others, I have a hard time. Today was a bit of both. I taught my WoW lesson today and it was generally well received. I talked about the issues surrounding dietary guidelines of the time and how commonplace alcohol and tobacco use were and the difficulty many saints, even church leaders, had in adhering to the WoW after it was given. I also talked about how it is a guideline for us in our religion and other religions have dietary guidelines as well and we should be careful not to use the WoW as a way to judge others. I used the scripture that Ann mentioned in Mark about how it is what comes out of a man’s heart that can defile him, not what goes into his belly. After the lesson I had one older sister come up to me very concerned that we had not talked about how “evil” cola is and that she really wishes that when we talked about the WoW we would talk about how evil those “cola drinks” are because, according to her, 90 percent of the church is addicted to Coke.
Then the RS lesson was on tithing and contained the usual advice to pay your tithing even if it means you can’t pay your bills. I didn’t make any comments, just sat quietly and listened because I know that many members take great comfort in feeling that by paying a full tithe they are ‘protected and provided for’. Then she asked “Where does our tithing money go?” I really had to fight my impulse to raise my hand and say, “We really don’t know because the church won’t disclose its financials”. I didn’t though. I have no desire to rock that boat.
Another sister made the comment that she had seen on Fox News a report on the top states for giving to charity and that she was so proud, but not at all surprised, that Utah was ranked #1. Again I held my tongue. I know that technically the church is seen as a charity and that tithing money does do a lot of good through welfare programs, but I often wish that we as members would also give to other charities like homeless shelters and food pantries in our communities as willingly or generously. It is something I’m working on myself.
Then I got called into the bishop’s office. I found myself mentally checking whether or not I had disclosed some of my issues to someone or whether someone might have read my posts here(thanks to the other thread about what happened to kristmace), but I’m sure that hasn’t happened. I was instead happy to find that he wanted to touch base about the marriage class I’m teaching in a couple of weeks. He was worried that they were asking too much of me this month because I spoke at RS and teach every other Sunday. I assured him that I’m fine with it and enjoying it. I told him my plans for the class and he said he thinks it will be great to hear some clinical, practical information to help strengthen marriages. He also said that he really enjoys my gospel doctrine lessons and appreciates that I can see the “gray areas” of some aspects of the church and that I’m not afraid to discuss them. I like my bishop.
🙂 Anyway, just needed to get some of that out there to people who would understand. I know I say it a lot, but I’m so glad I found this place.
It sounds like you have a wonderful Bishop – and that can make all the difference in the world. I couldn’t help but smile at the older woman who railed against cola drinks. She sounds like my maternal grandmother, who wasn’t pleased about my grandfather’s addiction to Pepsi.
As to the RS lessen: You win some, you lose some in a church staffed by regular people.
I LOVED reading this opening post. I teach for a living, and when I teach at church, I have so many of the self-monitoring experiences you are describing when I hold my tongue. And you have echoed my thoughts exactly about not knowing where tithing funds go. Debates about whether cola drinks are consistent with the WOW are something I would rather not invest time discussing — just as I would not enjoy devoting much time to whether pants should be cuffed, or not. In fact, whether pants should be cuffed or not is more interesting and relevant to me than the cola drink question. I’m glad the Bishop sees your ability with gray areas. I like your Bishop’s attitude regarding that too. Wonderful.
I would have had to bit my tongue in another way as well — when they commented on how Utah is #1 for charitable giving, I would have also thought “Yes, given the punishment associated with non-payment of tithing — TR non-renewal”. However, I wouldn’t say that either.
I taught Gospel Essentials and Priesthood for three years or so after my commitment crisis. And I would leave meetings with my tongue scarred and bleeding from all the self-restraint when people made comments I did not agree with. On the other hand, there were times I broached StayLDS ideas, and found veterans I thought would have corrected me, actually nodding their heads in agreement!!!!
MayB wrote:Then she asked “Where does our tithing money go?” I really had to fight my impulse to raise my hand and say, “We really don’t know because the church won’t disclose its financials”. I didn’t though. I have no desire to rock that boat.
Good for you! In my opinion, it would just draw negative attention to yourself. However, I can totally relate! I wanted to say the exact same thing when the topic came up today in my class. What about the multi-billion dollar mall?
What bothers me about these discussions are that I feel like people are lying to me and themselves. I don’t have a problem with the church building a multi-billion dollar mall, but let’s be honest about it.
However, I will remain quiet. I don’t want to disturb any peace people have.
I have a real hard time with SS because the teacher does 98% of the talking and it is all from a very conservative TBM viewpoint and many times it is just not worth trouble. I appreciate those that teach and the time it takes. It is nice when there are a lot of discussions and different ideas are explored. MayB wrote:Some Sundays are really easy and church feels familiar and loving and safe. Others, I have a hard time. Today was a bit of both.
MayB, I don’t know if this will help you, but I’m working on investing less significance in what is said and done in lessons. I still care A LOT, just less than I used to. I’m making a conscious effort, though, to express myself more honestly one on one. The other day a friend was talking about tithing being a contentious issue in her marriage because her non-member husband is not on board. We talked about that a bit. Then I said that I like the concept of tithing, I pay it willingly, I’m fortunate my husband’s like-minded, but that I personally didn’t think that temple recommends should be conditional on payment of tithing. That was it. It was refreshing to express myself, but it also felt “appropriate.”
church0333 wrote:I have a real hard time with SS because the teacher does 98% of the talking and it is all from a very conservative TBM viewpoint and many times it is just not worth trouble. I appreciate those that teach and the time it takes. It is nice when there are a lot of discussions and different ideas are explored.
Times like those I miss my crying baby.
At least the LDS scripture app makes a mobile phone in church ‘legit.’
MayB, I loved reading your post. I can completely understand how you feel. Sacrament I usually set myself the aspiration of one out of three talks not setting my teeth on edge.
Sunday School has two teachers and the tone varies. Priesthood is the same. One of the teachers is outstanding and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already living a personal ‘middle way’ another one does my head in.
I try to look for petals not thorns (but regularly fail!). If I get one petal a week it remains a ‘good day.’
MayB wrote:Some Sundays are really easy and church feels familiar and loving and safe. Others, I have a hard time.
I know exactly how you feel. I am the YM pres in our ward and I am trying to do that delicate dance between teaching the priests from the manual (BORING!) and reality. The bishop is in the lesson most of the time which makes it tricky. Bishop knows about my “trial of faith” and he has allowed me to have some lattitude in coloring outside the lines a little. Bottom line is that I feel that there are important underlying truths that we can learn in the gospel as long as we don’t get hung up on mormon minutia (e.g. coke is against WoW, paying tithing will make you profitable, obeying the commandments will guarantee our happiness, anymore than one pair of earrings for YW is defiling their bodies, etc.)
Yes, StayLDS is a wonderful site that has helped me immensely with reconciling my beliefs and staying.
AngryMormon wrote:
What bothers me about these discussions are that I feel like people are lying to me and themselves. I don’t have a problem with the church building a multi-billion dollar mall, but let’s be honest about it.However, I will remain quiet. I don’t want to disturb any peace people have.
I still want to know what an edifice like this has to do with the salvation of souls. Doesn’t this classify as a large and spacious building?
mackay11 wrote:I try to look for petals not thorns (but regularly fail!). If I get one petal a week it remains a ‘good day.’
This is what I’m working on being able to do. My faith transition is still really fresh, which sometimes makes it a bit more difficult. But I try to focus on seeing the ways that the gospel is uplifting people and bringing them peace. We had a return missionary speak in sacrament meeting yesterday and although I can’t agree with much of what he said, I could see that his mission had given him strength and helped him grow and become a better person. I think that was my one petal yesterday.
Ann wrote:MayB, I don’t know if this will help you, but I’m working on investing less significance in what is said and done in lessons. I still care A LOT, just less than I used to. I’m making a conscious effort, though, to express myself more honestly one on one. The other day a friend was talking about tithing being a contentious issue in her marriage because her non-member husband is not on board. We talked about that a bit. Then I said that I like the concept of tithing, I pay it willingly, I’m fortunate my husband’s like-minded, but that I personally didn’t think that temple recommends should be conditional on payment of tithing. That was it. It was refreshing to express myself, but it also felt “appropriate.”
This is great Ann. I find myself trying to do the same.
church0333 wrote:It is nice when there are a lot of discussions and different ideas are explored.
I agree. Sometimes it’s difficult for me to be the moderator of these discussions in our SS class because some members have the tendency to bring up their ideas and present them as irrefutable gospel truth. But overall, our class does a good job of making discussions focused and meaningful.
SilentDawning wrote:I would have had to bit my tongue in another way as well — when they commented on how Utah is #1 for charitable giving, I would have also thought “Yes, given the punishment associated with non-payment of tithing — TR non-renewal”. However, I wouldn’t say that either.
That thought popped into my mind as well. I’m currently having a very difficult time with tithing. I’ve been in the place where we had to choose between tithing and food for us and our children. I chose to feed my family. I did keep track of what tithing we owed and we paid it all when we had the money. But I remember feeling so guilty at the time for not paying it first and just having faith that we would be taken care of like they keep teaching us to. Now, I’m glad I chose my family first.
We’re fine with money now, but I guess the reason that I’m having such a hard time paying tithing is because we don’t know exactly where it goes and how it is used. Also, learning about some of the “perks” of the GA’s and the relatively tiny portion of the church’s money that actually goes to humanitarian aid(through looking at their financial disclosures for the UK), has just turned me off to it. I know tithing is primarily for buildings, materials, and administrative costs of running the church, but when they spend so much on things that I don’t feel are necessary expenditures, I have a hard time feeling good about giving my money. I’m trying to re-frame my thinking, but so far have been unsuccessful in this area. As a result, I have about four tithing checks that I’ve written out that are just sitting in my checkbook waiting to get turned in.
Old-Timer wrote:It sounds like you have a wonderful Bishop – and that can make all the difference in the world.
I do have a wonderful bishop. We’ve been in this ward almost a year now and I’ve been very impressed with him.
MayB, Thanks for the followup on the WoW lesson. I’m glad it went well. I wish I could have heard it.
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