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I am seeing this particular company/private practice fairly regularly in my Facebook feed. It appears to be established in large part to help YM “addicted” to P and M.
It seems to overly use battle metaphors. It seems to describe tactics that Satan uses to make YM fail and how to counter/overcome those tactics.
Here is a link to a blog post from them on the 4 levels of “P” use.
http://www.lifechangingservices.org/2014/11/the-4-levels-of-pornography-use-and/ This is interesting for several reasons. They seem to bill themselves as licensed therapists but I find it unusual for therapists to talk like this e.g. “fight the battle against Satan’s tactics.” Honestly, it reminds me of the type of business that might have practiced conversion therapy in an earlier day and age. They are independent of the LDS church yet are VERY Mormon – even gearing their services to pre and post missionary service.
I am interested to know your thoughts on this organization.
My first impression: I hate their ever-changing navbar. It’s bad UI design, and it offends me deeply. Each psychiatrist/therapist will generally have their own approach. Psychiatric problems rarely have a “one-size-fits-all” solution, since our psyches are as varied as our personal experiences, chemistry, and habits. There is something inspiring and empowering, to view yourself as a Hero, fighting the powers of darkness. They are inspiring stories.
I admire what they aim to do, and wish them all the best. I imagine it will be a great resource for the majority of TBMs. On the other hand, I wish they (and many members of the LDS Church) could take what they’ve learned from the gospel and the scriptures, and directly apply it in non-religious context. We’ve got this mentality, “All that is, is LDS; and without LDS there is nothing”; it can really inhibit our ability to help those who are not of our faith, or with varying levels of belief.
I personally don’t like the word “fight” when it comes to overcoming addictions. Addicts in recovery don’t use that word often because they know that fighting an addiction is fruitless. People in recovery have found success only because they stopped fighting and surrendered. I hope they are not teaching our young men that they can fight their sex drive through will power. If so, they’re setting them up for failure.
I am pursuing an advanced degree in counseling right now, and this could serve as a case study to analyze in my ethics class. Given my current reality, I can’t comment further on it. Old Timer wrote:
Given my current reality, I can’t comment further on it.
:thumbdown: but I understand your situation. I just hope that somebody much more expert than I can weigh in.I worry that YM with completely moderate and normal interests in P and M are made to feel like they are addicts and then “treated” in a heavily religious psychiatric process.
In the linked blog post and in the testimonials I read, they referred to these young men as “sexual addicts” with “sexual addiction”. To me this goes a step beyond talking about being “addicted” to P and M. How can a YM be both a sex addict and a virgin at the same time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction Quote:Some argue that applying such concepts to normal behaviors such as sex, can be problematic, and suggest that applying medical models such as addiction to human sexuality can serve to pathologise normal behavior and cause harm
I also think the article on the “4 levels of P use” is much too broad in the definition of addiction. Something like, “Is your teenager sullen, and moody, has self confidence issues, and is defensive over intrusions into their personal privacy? Yup, definitely an addict. This cannot be overcome by cold showers and willpower alone and the bishop does not have the specialized skills necessary – get them professional help ASAP.”
:crazy: My $0.02Roy wrote:
I am seeing this particular company/private practice fairly regularly in my Facebook feed…It appears to be established in large part to help YM “addicted” to P and M…it seems to overly use battle metaphors.It seems to describe tactics that Satan uses to make YM fail and how to counter/overcome those tactics…This is interesting for several reasons. They seem to bill themselves as licensed therapists but I find it unusual for therapists to talk like this e.g. “fight the battle against Satan’s tactics.”Honestly, it reminds me of the type of business that might have practiced conversion therapy in an earlier day and age. They are independent of the LDS church yet are VERY Mormon – even gearing their services to pre and post missionary service…I am interested to know your thoughts on this organization. On another forum I heard that some bishops were sending people to these programs for treatment and in some cases actually paying for it with money from the Church. I guess it was only a matter of time before some people tried to profit from all the porn hysteria in the Church. It reminds me of the Book of Mormon tours to see Mayan ruins. Basically the Church itself creates a market for this kind of thing because there are young men that think they need to stop all the porn and masturbation once and for all in order to be “worthy” to go on missions, get married in the temple, etc. and there are LDS men with their wife threatening to divorce them that could also use something like this to try to show that they are really serious about stopping. So the battle metaphors actually fit fairly well with their goals and target customers because it is all part of playing along with the idea that all of this is supposedly so serious as if it is practically more important than life or death (of any one individual).
Roy wrote:
I guess it was only a matter of time before some people tried to profit from all the porn hysteria in the Church.
I have been trying to clarify my views in my mind for days. Thank you for finding the words for me.
Roy wrote:
Basically the Church itself creates a market for this kind of thing because there are young men that think they need to stop all the porn and masturbation once and for all in order to be “worthy” to go on missions, get married in the temple, etc. and there are LDS men with their wife threatening to divorce them that could also use something like this to try to show that they are really serious about stopping.
Yup. I wish I could point out “it’s not that simple” – no matter what stance is adopted towards these behaviors by the married partners, the remedy as prescribed above is not the “magic bullet” that will solve all disputes/concerns/issues in this area within a marriage for all time. Bodies change, perspectives shift, needs change. I feel at best, the overuse of these behaviors is merely a symptom of deeper issues that should be addressed as a team for a better marriage. Even if the behaviors are displayed by only one party of the marriage, I can guarantee that it will take communication and trust between both parties to set the boundaries/goals for their marriage, and achieve success in keeping those boundaries and achieving those goals.
Roy wrote:
So the battle metaphors actually fit fairly well with their goals and target customers because it is all part of playing along with the idea that all of this is supposedly so serious as if it is practically more important than life or death (of any one individual).
Until biology comes back into play to reset the equilibrium for one/both parties.
Blatant example: When a woman is recovering from having a child, she is biologically going to be extremely “less interested” in dedicating resources towards mutual satisfaction at some point. Yes, it does happen – but other factors come into play which shortchange it (maternal sleep deprivation, shifting maternal hormones, harder for female to relax with children, additional family clutter in house, post-natal recovery, potential post-partum depression) . It requires trust and communication to navigate this perilous situation, if first-time parents are given the information to expect this (if it is discussed, it is more academic and “out of sight, out of mind”). Repeat parents may have more mileage from the first get-go (if hindsight is 20/20 in this case), but the situation is still perilous for the first 9 months or so.
I’ve been given the metaphor of sex as fire on a few occasions. Fire is a wonderful thing. It allows us to stay warm, cook, generate power, move cars, go shooting, and so much more. It’s a normal and healthy part of life… But it can be destructive and dangerous. It can give you third degree burns, burn your house down, and even kill you. Sexuality is much the same way. That’s usually where the metaphor ends…
But we introduce problems by not talking about it and not teaching how to use it properly. Imagine what the world would be like if the topic of fire was a taboo. Pretty much everyone uses it, but nobody is taught how to make a fire or precautions to take when working with fire. So as a result, a lot of people burn themselves or accidentally destroy property their first few times working with fire. Then suppose on top of that, there are a handful of groups/religions that say that fire is evil because it’s destructive, others that teach you not to make fire until you’re an adult, etc… You end up creating a society is afraid of something that is a normal everyday part of life. All this could be avoided by simply talking about fire.
I think the church likes to look at sexual misconduct from the worst-case scenario. I don’t advocate porn or masturbation (maybe the latter is a little more up in the air?) as a good thing, but it isn’t the end of the world if you’re addicted to either or both. Sure, they affect several aspects of your psyche, including confidence, perception of reality, and ability to see women as people, but it takes a lot for either to completely destroy your life. Both are something I have struggled with lately and I feel pretty addicted, but maybe I’m not since neither occurs on a consistent daily basis. I’ve had some low points, but I don’t feel I’ve really hit rock bottom yet. I don’t want to and I hope I don’t need to before I can recover. My recent transition into full-blown stage 4 faith has certainly made ARP step 3 a lot more complicated.
I wish I could be more open about this with church members (out in the open IRL; not in a semi-anonymous setting like an internet forum or ARP), but I feel that there is still far too strong of a stigma against those who struggle with these things. But the truth is that almost every guy does at some point in his life. YW need to understand that. I hope that someday, we can make the church a place where you could walk into any ward and talk to anyone there about your porn addiction and nobody would pass judgement.
Porn addiction needs to stop being a deal breaker in dating. A certain person I know’s wife threatened to leave him on one occasion she caught him looking at porn. I would not be surprised if he has that problem to this day and he just got really good at hiding it and lying about it, though perhaps it was a one time deal and it scared him out of ever indulging again. I don’t think that reaction is helpful and it honestly isn’t Christlike.
Sons of Helaman might be good for some people. Other people might find more solace in ARP (most places have men-only porn groups. The one I go to has a couple of priest-age YM who attend). Some need to take their own path.
The war metaphors might be counterproductive in some cases. In catching porn issues earlier in life, perhaps not as much. Most of the men at ARP are at least 30 years old (maybe older or younger, depending on the group). And ARP only represents a small sample of the men who have porn problems. Most men in the church with the problem have not taken the steps to recovery and simply lie their way through membership. Point is, ARP is designed for an older audience of people who have hit rock bottom in their addictions. Not to say that it can’t work for younger people who are not so far gone; it just takes some adaptation.
I just wish GC spent more time talking about what to do when you or a friend is addicted to porn instead of spending all their time talking about the destructive nature of porn. Honestly, the more they talk about how bad it is, the more people want to hide it. Maybe porn is an oil fire, but you can still put those out with the right tools. Don’t tell us about the houses that burned down from oil fires and tell us how to put them out instead.
I once read a book on sexual addictions. One guy in a case study had an executive private office with a bathroom. He looked at p on his computer. His employer blocked his access. He spent much of his time in his private bathroom looking at p on some sort of handheld device. His employer found out and canned him. He ended up losing his family too (they left him). The worse things got in his life the more he would turn to p as an escape. Ultimately his life was in shambles and p was the only thing that made his life livable and he would spend the greater portion of any given day consuming it.
This guy had at one point produced/succeeded in life at a high level and it would be interesting to know what might have happened to trigger the downward spiral.
Remembering back at the examples in that book of genuine sexual addictions make me believe that almost all YM in the church that we may label as “addicts” really are not addicts at all.
I believe that using the term “addiction” to refer to non-addiction behaviors is counter productive and damaging.
Go read stuff from Natasha Helfer Parker (nickname of “the Mormon therapist”). She strongly states that using the addict word is clinically wrong and more importantly it is harmful to relationships. LookingHard wrote:
Go read stuff from Natasha Helfer Parker (nickname of “the Mormon therapist”). She strongly states that using the addict word is clinically wrong and more importantly it is harmful to relationships.
Very helpful. Thanks LH.
Quote:within the last 6 months I’ve known of two LDS adolescent boys referred to the addictions program offered by the church because they masturbate 1-3 times a week and three LDS adolescent clients tell me they believe their masturbatory behavior to be a sin next to murder!!! If this is what we are teaching our youth – then we are emotionally abusing them. And it needs to stop.
Read more at
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mormontherapist/2012/08/my-official-stance-on-masturbation.html#iKytJOH8HZSBdF7z.99
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