Spiritual Gifts: Then and Now

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

One question I often ponder:

What’s the difference between a spiritual experience, specifically when a person has a gift to see spirits or have visions, and a psychotic event including hallucinations?

I have tried to read Joseph Smith’s teachings on distinguishing the source of spirits, but it leaves me uncomforted.

If I were to answer that, the obvious response is, the spiritual experience is “real,” i.e. the “vision” is physically real…where the psychotic event is not.

Now, if the question is “how does one tell the difference?” I think that is more difficult. I’ve read many studies that conclude that if a person perceives an event (in the mind, or a hallucination), it is as real to that person as if it really happened. Lie detector testing, physical indicators…all demonstrate the reality of the event — even to the psychotic event. So each case must be evaluated on an individual basis.

I personally look at each reported event skeptically, but possible, and rarely do I let a reported event determine much of what I do in my own life. I see it as that person’s experience, and I support him/her in it if it improves that person’s life.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

One question I often ponder:

What’s the difference between a spiritual experience, specifically when a person has a gift to see spirits or have visions, and a psychotic event including hallucinations?

Sure seeing spirits or visions one time only could just be a simple hallucination and if it appears as if the same spirits keep coming back it could easily be some form of neurosis or temporary insanity. But what about experiences where the spirits appear to know something that you wouldn’t really expect the person experiencing this to know? In cases like this I have a harder time just assuming that there must be some natural explanation.

Actually, at least 5 first-hand experiences I have heard that impressed me the most were just simple dreams but the weird thing was that they accurately predicted future events in some very unlikely ways so they would have to be an extremely lucky coincidence to just happen by chance when they did.

[Anonymous]

Rix wrote:

DevilsAdvocate wrote:

I know for a fact that spiritual experiences still happen because several people I know have had unusual experiences like this.

I think there are many possible explanations for “spiritual experiences,” one of them really a connection with the Divine (whatever that is)! Where I think many err is to label it, and/or give it meaning…when that may be completely wrong.

…The issue I have is that I have been a witness to spiritual “miracles” as well — many (most, in my experience) outside the LDS church. So in a nutshell, I believe they occur, but I don’t think they are unique to Mormons.

This is a good point. Hugh Nibley reportedly had a near-death experience that made a big impression on him and maybe this is one reason he was so persistent in defending the LDS Church against some of the toughest criticisms without getting discouraged. Of course, one problem with interpreting this kind of thing as some kind of positive confirmation that the Church’s claims are 100% true is the fact that many non-Mormons have had similar experiences without ever being told by those on the other side that their religious beliefs were completely wrong.

[Anonymous]

I know a man from whom I heard the following firsthand – at the time it occurred:

When he was called as Bishop, he was overwhelmed by the idea of that calling – especially since he had not been attending his own ward regularly for some time and didn’t know lots of the members very well. One night, before he was sustained and before he attended any type of administrative meetings, he had a vision/dream in which a former leader of the ward came to him and told him lots of things that would help in his calling – especially about specific individuals.

I was in attendance when this man was presented to the ward and sustained. One of his counselors spoke briefly (a man who had been in ward leadership positions for a few years) and mentioned that he knew the new Bishop was inspired because in their first meeting together the new Bishop had shared his experience with him (including some of the information he had been told in his vision). The counselor said that he was astonished at how insightful and accurate the information was – including things that he recognized as true but had never stopped and considered or realized until that moment.

Spiritual gifts are among us still, but we talk about them FAR less openly than in the past.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

without ever being told by those on the other side that their religious beliefs were completely wrong.

Well, the official Mormon answer would be because they aren’t completely wrong.

[Anonymous]

DevilsAdvocate wrote:

I know for a fact that spiritual experiences still happen because several people I know have had unusual experiences like this. The best that skeptics can say is that they think these are all a misinterpretation of some natural process or outright lies but personally I don’t believe in the skeptics’ explanations in many cases. However, these experiences seem to be very rare in the Church nowadays compared with the way it was before and I don’t know of any recent cases of several different members all having experiences like this at the same time.

I realize that these early Church members were probably more receptive to these kinds of experiences than the average member nowadays. However, even now many Pentecostal sects still have meetings that sound very much like these early LDS meetings. Is this legitimate spiritual influence or pure craziness? On my mission in Brazil these Pentecostal churches were very popular and I honestly thought it was demonic at the time but now I don’t know what to think about it. Certainly most Pentecostals I met seemed very sincere and faithful and we rarely baptized any of them, mostly just lapsed Catholics.

I also believe that spiritual experiences still happen, but I think we experience them in a dimension we’re not used to living in, so explaining them sounds “illogical.” It does seem that when there is a witness, the “validity” increases. But I can’t help but wonder if the members then, & Pentacostal members now are influenced by peer pressure.

In our church today, we have a peer pressure, to stay calm, cool & unquestioning Once, my boyfriend at the time (who happened to be black) came with me to a fast & testimony meeting. He’s not exactly “shy” by any means & decided to bear his testimony…his own way (with all the enthusiasm he had). I think he shocked a lot of members, although one sweet sister came up to him & said how refreshing his testimony was. But speaking in tounges, claiming visions, raising our hands – yelling, “praise the Lord” or running laps around the chapel during Sacrament Meeting may not go off so well.

One more note – if people are speaking in tounges – & I do believe it’s possible, there has to be a reason, not just jibber. I also believe spiritual experiences happen for a reason. Last year, I dreamt something that came true…& I did act on it to make it come true, but there were details that I knew about before experiencing them. It was important that I acted on it & I may not have done it without the encouragment of that dream.

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