Spouse lack of support

[Anonymous]

Heber, I strongly recommend you both read the first five chapters of Michael Ash’s book “shaken faith syndrome” and talk about it with each other. You can get the book at Deseret Book, online if you don’t live near a store. Published by FAIR and distributed by Deseret Book is as TBM/LDS.org certified as you can get – and in the first five chapters Ash raises some excellent points that I’m sure will be beneficial for you both to discuss. Falibility of prophets and scripture for one.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Heber, good luck. My wife isn’t very pleased with my heretic moniker, but she hasn’t put down the ultimatum on me (yet). I feel for you, and wish you the best.

[Anonymous]

There are few people, if any, more important to strengthen and serve than your spouse, Heber. I know you know that, but I wanted to say it. You will be greatly missed. Your contributions touch the lives of many people here, but you must take care of your personal, real, immediate surrounding world and relationships.

Good luck and God’s blessing in your meetings coming up. Try to explain how your participation at StayLDS is keeping you in the church, not driving you away from the Gospel. I know it does for me. Helping others to stay, digging in to understand and connect with others that want to try and stay, that keeps me thinking about the church in creative and positive ways, even if they are different than orthodox perspectives. Do they want us to stay or not? This is how I stay.

Do keep us updated if you can. I will pray for you and your family.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your support. I’m glad I logged back in this morning to check if any of you had replied. I wasn’t very happy this morning when I got to work, because my FIL really blasted me last night…typical TBM stuff where they think they are so right and need to convince me of that, and just don’t have an open mind to hear or understand what I’m really saying. I tried to use TBM speak, focus on family, love, and the gospel, but they seemed to get hung up on never disagreeing with church leaders who represent God, and obeying all commandments which is the only way to happiness. I quoted Elder Uchtdorf and tried to point out that it gets more complex, but they went into their own experiences and how it was hard, but you have to endure in faith and never doubt. They don’t understand that I agree with 90% of what they say, so there isn’t a problem. But when I slipped up and said, “I just don’t really think Word of Wisdom is as big a deal as loving our kids and loving our neighbor, and its not a big deal if I skip church every once in a while if I’m still teaching my kids the gospel” that just set them off again, so I just shut up and let them go.

I slept on the couch last night. Went into work this morning, and found this email in my inbox:

Quote:

Just thought I’d clear the air after last nights talk with Dad. It seemed like things were a little tense and that you were a bit upset. Maybe I read that wrong. I thought alot last night and this morning about things and came to some conclusions about how to maybe go forward and thought I’d get your ideas on how I was thinking.

I realized I’ve been going about this all wrong. I’ve been thinking that you need to change and stop reading or going on those websites and be the way you used to be. But I had an epiphany that I think I need to be the one to change

and try to understand how you feel about things. Try to understand you better. Give you space and time to deal with this in your own way. So I’m sorry for the way I’ve been acting. I’m sorry I haven’t been more supportive and understanding. I’m glad you found some people you could relate to that could support you and your questions and the church.

I’m going to work on some things to change, and I want to be supportive of you and your search for truth in any way you choose.

😮 Wow. I’m so relieved, and it was a good lesson for me that sometimes we just need to be patient. That when others don’t understand us or they start judging or accusing us wrongly, sometimes it just takes time for reason to set in (and maybe a little help from the Spirit ). I think this is typical experience for many people that come to this site…their actions cause a panic in their TBM spouse or family, and the TBMs don’t know how to handle their fears and emotions, but that is a reflection of them, not really the other person or even the topic or doctrine. It makes me think about Ray’s threads on Charity and long-suffering…sometimes we just need to be patient, it is part of the growing experience for us, and had I blown up, walked out, or decided to end my marriage over it…I would have missed the opportunity to get this wonderful email this morning.

Brian Johnston wrote:

There are few people, if any, more important to strengthen and serve than your spouse Heber.

I agree with my wife…you really do know a lot, Brian! Thanks, and I agree.

mormonheretic wrote:

she hasn’t put down the ultimatum on me (yet)

Thanks for the encouraging words, MH, and be grateful for how your wife cares enough to not put down the ultimatums…I think that is destructive to relationships, and as any counselor would say, if your spouse has the attitude they are going to change you or save you from yourself…that is usually not a healthy approach either. It sounds like your wife is patient. Be grateful for that, as I’m sure you are.

Orson wrote:

I strongly recommend you both read the first five chapters of Michael Ash’s book “shaken faith syndrome” and talk about it with each other.

I’m headed to the book store after work to see if I can find it. Thanks for that. I think that is a Deseret book with a perspective from the church that might be seen as safe reading. I will get it. I will let my wife choose to read it or not…I’m not going to coerce her into reading what she doesn’t want to.

Old-Timer wrote:

mention that you are trying to follow Elder Ballard’s counsel from three years ago when he asked the membership to participate in online discussions in order to share the Gospel and strengthen others. It was a very clear request, and that’s essentially what you are doing here.

Brilliant! July 2008 Ensign article…I’m going to share that with my wife, I think she is trying to support me, and this will be a good way to point out we are trying to follow an Apostle.

Thanks for all your support. I really appreciate it, rather than having to deal with this all alone. Based on my wife’s email, I will likely be back on the regular forum soon, as it fulfills me by sharing my testimony with others, and learning from others. It is something I feel drawn to. Thanks again.

-Kevin

[Anonymous]

Thank God!

I would suggest you thank her explicitly and, if possible, take her out tonight (or ASAP if tonight won’t work) to dinner or something else as an explicit date – and don’t talk about the Church at all. Just enjoy being with her. (If she balks, tell her with a huge grin that your online High Councilor told you to do it – and you want to support the Priesthood leadership. 😆 )

I hope this plays out the way you want it to – particularly since she obviously wants it to work, as well.

[Anonymous]

That is really great news! (And Ray is a genius!)

I am so glad to hear about your dear wife letting her intuition run its course, and having the wisdom and courage to listen to that “still small voice.” I have no problem calling that “the Spirit” of God.

Great big virtual man-hugs from me to you!

[Anonymous]

Good to hear!

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

If she balks, tell her with a huge grin that your online High Councilor told you to do it – and you want to support the Priesthood leadership.

😆

You know, a good sense of humor helps through these things as well…you’re too funny.

She’s got an appointment with the bishop tonight…she said she set it up originally to have the bishop help change my heart…but now she doesn’t want me going, she wants to ask the bishop to help change her heart.

I still can’t believe the 180 degree turn all of a sudden. She said she prayed most of the night and this was the inspiration she received…so this has really strengthened my faith in prayer, through her, not through my own experience. Interesting how it works sometimes.

It will be interesting to see how it continues to play out. I won’t bore you all with all the ongoing details…just that I seem to be back on a good track again.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

I won’t bore you all with all the ongoing details…just that I seem to be back on a good track again.

Please, please… bore us!!

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I won’t bore you all with all the ongoing details…just that I seem to be back on a good track again.

Quote:

Please, please… bore us!!

Please, please . . . share without boring us!!

[Anonymous]

Heber, this is great news! Keep sharing please.

[Anonymous]

I felt I wanted to give an update to my friends here on my situation, I hope you don’t mind. 😳 

The past month has seen such an incredible change in my home life, it is almost as hard to accept as it was for me to figure out how things fell apart for me back in 2009 when Ray told me to check out this website.

My wife has stabilized, and has had a softened heart. It was so sudden I was suspicious. But it is like a fog has been lifted and she seems the same old friend I remember back 20 yrs ago when we dated at BYU. These past three years, we’ve gone through 3 marriage counselors, thousands of dollars in counseling, more in medical bills…and all of a sudden, like a switch was turned, she has changed her heart.  She has started asking me about my posts on this website so she can understand me, not judging me or blaming all of you for my apostasy. We have started talking about all kinds of things, and it amazes me how things can change in this life and how our bodies can completely control our abilities to deal with things, because she was truly incapable (to use the terms the doctors and therapists were telling me) of processing things I was telling her about her suicidal tendencies and how her actions were affecting me, the kids, and those around us in the ward. And now, she is open, and feels guilty, and wants to make things better and realizes she was not herself before (actually, she doesn’t remember very much of it, which worries the doctors some.).

It has been a great Christmas time as a whole family, and my teen age girl cried the other night, thanking God our family is staying together.  I don’t want to be a downer, but I now wonder if it can change so quickly, how often will it go back and forth….but I will not worry or focus on that right now.  We have an opportunity to start working on things in our marriage, and there is a chance of saving it now…and I focus on that.

She doesn’t agree with my attitude of the church, or that I skip every other week or so, but she accepts it for now and doesn’t pressure me to go or to talk to the bishop anymore.

Today she felt impressed to call up a friend from church that has gone inactive, and go have lunch with her.  This lady spilled her guts saying how she has studied church history online, and can’t believe the church is true anymore.  One item after another, including her new attraction to Buddhism, amazed my wife, as she kept saying, “that’s exactly how my husband thinks”.  So she actually referred this friend to the StayLDS website, and then invited her and her husband over to our house next Friday to have a discussion about how couples deal with these changes in faith, and to open up to talk about these doctrinal issues. We want to start a gospel discussion in our home, with no topic off limits.  I was shocked she told me that, but excited to say the least.

The funny thing is, my wife still doesn’t understand me and my belief, she thinks I don’t believe the church is true…but it is only because in her state, she hasn’t been able to talk to me and understand my complex paradoxical approach to the church, but she believes having this couple over to our house will help her hear things from their perspective, and let this friend’s husband hear things from my perspective, as both couples get a chance to talk about these things we are going through.

It should be interesting to see how it goes.

Life is interesting how it twists and turns and keeps us guessing on things.  We have gone from the brink of divorce and me moving out for a while, to dwelling together tolerating each other for the kids’ sake, to now all of a sudden she has stabilized and can actually talk to me and start working through things.  It is clearly a mental health issue, which I’m still learning about how it works and what options there are for dealing with it. Clearly we have a lot to work through still, as I have changed over these experiences, she has changed (back and forth a bit), and we will need to still see how we work through marriage issues in light of changes.

Anyhow, that’s an update on my situation.  Thanks for listening. Wish me luck things will keep going well for me!

[Anonymous]

“May there be a road” is one of my favorite sayings.

Thanks for keeping us updated, and I hope you can find a way for her to remain balanced and for both of you to progress again in your relationship.

[Anonymous]

That’s really cool Heber. I’m very happy for you and your family.

[Anonymous]

Great update. I’m glad there is a silver lining, and hope the upswing continues. Dinner with the other couple should help. Sometimes you have to have a discussion to clarify what you think.

[Author]

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