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Fun stuff! http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2009/08/john-lynch-uh-oh-to-ah-hah-2020.html “When you try to find help, use trustworthy resources. There are wolves in sheeps clothing. 2 specifically.
1. MormonThink.com. Presents itself as open environment to discuss gospel from open perspective where the truth is discovered. I will tell you right now there is an agenda behind that website. They would like to make the line more fuzzy, to raise doubts.
2. StayLDS.com. This is run by John Dehlin, a sincere individual who wants to help. I think he is off the mark. They say we want you to stay LDS even though you don’t believe. Why would you want to do that? Why have someone remain complacent in a state of doubt?
Find trustworthy resources that stand firm. Let them be partisan. Balanced information is fine. But make sure you find those who stand up for what the Church believes.”
Q: I think you may misunderstand the purpose of StayLDS.org/
A: I might, you might be right. My main concern is that I do want people to remain in the church. I am simply leery about encouraging people to stay despite not believing in any of the claims, etc. [incomplete typing]
Wow. If only some people who are afraid of seeing the church misrepresented were equally as afraid of misrepresenting others! “encouraging people to stay despite not believing in any of the claims”What!!?!??! Isn’t it all over this site that we “help people REGAIN a level of their faith”??!!!?!?
There’s no such thing as bad PR. I would love for FAIR or anyone else with a loud voice to talk about us 
They were way off base though. Thank you, whoever “Anonymous” was that responded.
Quote:A: I might, you might be right. My main concern is that I do want people to remain in the church. I am simply leery about encouraging people to stay despite not believing in any of the claims, etc. [incomplete typing]]
I seriously hope he does not mean that …
đ„ If he really thought about it, or was confronted, I hope he would still want people to stay in the Church, even if they are going through a period of unbelief. How does he think they will ever connect back to the Church and the Church’s Gospel if they leave and never return? *boggles*
I hear you Valoel, it’s nice to be known. On the other hand I think we could be that much more effective if we’re not seen in a negative light by a big chunk of conservative members. I don’t expect to have our purpose fully understood, but I think a little effort early on (like now as people are beginning to hear about StayLDS) could go a long way in shaping a general image. There was a follow up comment on that post suggesting a direct email to John Lynch to address the misunderstanding. My thought is itâs pretty straight forward â I read John Lâs statement as confusing us with a NOMish âyou donât believe anymore but stay anywayâ when our real mission I think is clearly stated as âstay so you can grow personally and spiritually in the churchâ, basically turning negative views toward the net-positive side. Maybe an absolutist view has difficulty seeing the difference, but I think a little effort can help the impressions.
I see our mission as very close to what was stated in Bushmanâs intro to his summer seminar last year:
â4. Revived Latter-day Saints focus on the good things they derive from their faithâthe community of believers, the comforts of the Holy Spirit, the orientation toward the large questions of life, contact with God, moral discipline, and many others. They donât want to abandon these good things. Starting from that point of desired belief, they are willing to give Joseph Smith and the doctrine a favorable hearing. They may not be absolutely certain about every item, but they are inclined to see the good and the true in the Church.At the heart of this turmoil is the question of trust. Disillusioned Latter-day Saints feel their trust has been betrayed. They donât know whom to trust. They donât dare trust the old feelings that once were so powerful, nor do they trust church leaders…â
I think we’d all agree that we want to be seen as a body of members that these people can trust, and I think that trust is vital in helping people “give Joseph Smith and the doctrine a favorable hearing.” Yes, we clearly state our mission and methods are different from traditional apologetics. I see apologetics as addressing information directly, while we address the individuals personally/emotionally/spiritually directly.
Ray, as our “resident apologist” how would you feel about helping in this regard? Would you be willing to (if you have the time) compose an email to John Lynch at FAIR on behalf of StayLDS to clarify any potential misunderstandings around our purpose and mission? Well, not to be picky, but that image of the spinning girl! I think she’s spinning to the left regardless of the illusion they are trying to portray. As the leg moves (either in front or behind the body) there is a shadow. The horizontal level of the light source is below her feet. The vertical is slightly left of center. The depth of the light source seems to me to be in front of her, since it is brightest near the bottom of the picture. If it were further back in depth, it would be brighter at a higher at a higher horizontal level. If that’s true, if she were turning to the right, the shadow from her foot would be visible while her foot was behind her. This would suggest that the light is behind her, or that she is “out of the picture” as it were. Since she is clearly in the picture, the light source must be in front of her and she is therefore spinning to the left. So there!!
:ugeek: And maybe I’ll be using that spinning girl for my avatar. I have yet to find one I really like. But this one’s pretty cool.
Oh yeah, and they misrepresented us and we should try to correct that, and continue to follow the mission we have outlined. From John Lynch of FAIR: John,
Feel free to call me after about 6pm MST (my phone battery is charging). I would very much like to speak with you, as I consider you a friend. 408-712-9500.
I will send you the mp3 of my comments later tonight (hopefully) so that you can have them accurately and in context. I have not heard a replay as yet, but I do not recall ever having said you were a wolf in sheepâs clothing. I raised a warning voice about finding trustworthy sources, and warned against wolves in sheepâs clothing. 2 sites were mentioned by way of caution. One was mormonthink.com, the other was staylds.com. Mormonthink I characterized as dangerous. Staylds.org I said was run by you, whom I know, and who I consider sincere and wanting to help, but that with your site, you were off the mark. With any luck, my memory is correct and my comments were as described
. Our wiki editors did a review of staylds.org, which you can see at
http://www.en.fairmormon.org . You may find useful insights about ways to improve. My personal review of your site supports my concerns about how useful it is for people looking to help those who struggle, which was the context of my talk. I can gladly share my personal worries with you, knowing that I applaud the idea of helping the disaffacted stay connected until their concerns can become overcome. I have always enjoyed a frank relationship with you, and will gladly learn from you and share my thoughts.I look forward to talking.
John L.
More from John Lynch: John,
It was drafted a few weeks ago, but was published today. It may be that there was an unfortunate overlap. I went to your site after receiving your message, and I saw your disclaimer (I noted that it appeared as a âsecondâ disclaimer).
I will circle the wagons and see if we can pull it until a more thorough review can be done on your new article, and after suggesting changes to you. I think that is the least we can do.
I suspect that you were not able to listen to my comments and are relying on second or third hand accounts. I did not intend any personal offense. I will send the MP3, and please feel free to let me know if I crossed a boundary. As you know, I believe as you do that kindness and understanding, not pointed remarks, will do more for the kingdom and those who struggle than anything else. We are kindred thinkers in this regard, and I hope that you will similarly recognize this in my comments.
Feel free to call me in a bit if you feel it will help. My phone battery is charging until 6 when the conference ends.
Kind regards,
John L.
Admins — Please do not ever allow my personal correspondance w/ John to leak. This is for our eyes only.
Thanks.
Quote:Well, not to be picky, but that image of the spinning girl! I think she’s spinning to the left regardless of the illusion they are trying to portray.
You are so right!
Quote:And maybe I’ll be using that spinning girl for my avatar. I have yet to find one I really like. But this one’s pretty cool.
It is cool, but people are going to think you are a chick, not a dude. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I commented on the thread at LifeOnGoldPlates, too. This whole thing reminded me of something from the mission, when one group of missionaries was taunting another as being inferior missionaries.
Hey…I want to be clear about a few things: 1) The folks at FAIR are good people. They are trying to do what is right. They are doing hard work. The only harder job in the church would be GA, in my opinion.
2) This is totally what apologetic-type folks normally do in religions. Please read “The Chosen” and “The Promise” by Chaim Potok as soon as you can. I have been expecting this for months now. On some level – they will never be able to support/endorse what we do (nor will the brethren).
3) I told EmJen that the folks who would stay away from us based on warnings by FAIR are not the types of people we are trying to reach. So for us, this is only goodness (from my point of view). It drives awareness. And it lifts our credibility/legitimacy (as players of substance).
4) Let’s fix that freaking essay.
Thanks for all the points of clarification John. I agree that the “fans” of FAIR (I hope that doesn’t come across wrong) will not have any interest in our site. I think that should be obvious to everyone, and is in line with my interpretation of what Bushman was saying ( http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html I only wish those at FAIR could recognize that much. Call us the last resort for those beyond hope, I don’t care, but please recognize our position as valid. (I can hope at least right
đ )My personal motivations are similar to what I imagine Ray probably feels. People close to me that know of my activity on StayLDS may become a little worried if they hear StayLDS denounced. I suppose that much is probably obvious – besides that fact that I strongly feel if they don’t like us they really don’t understand us (which I can admit is a probable outcome of just browsing our discussions without a Disaffection to TBM translation).
Quote:I strongly feel if they don’t like us they really don’t understand us
Exactly! How can anyone not like us??
I like us. Let’s take a poll in a public thread – who of us likes us, I think we’ll do pretty good! 
jmb, you rock on that spinning girl. You took the words out of my mouth – and then expounded in a way that I couldn’t have.
She was only turning one way to my eyes!
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