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[Admin note: Now that we’ve discussed the personal shortcomings of specific people, let’s get back to the point of the post.] I think we really do need to learn to live according to the dictates of our own consciences and not base our self-worth on how others see us – and moderate our actions only on the basis of love for others and not inflicting harm that is avoidable. (for example, Paul’s counsel to abstain from eating meat when among those for whom abstaining from meat is meaningful and important)
There are some things I believe that I won’t say in church – not because I care if others know I believe them but because I care enough about those other people to shut my mouth and not risk causing serious harm when I can avoid it.
Old-Timer wrote:(for example, Paul’s counsel to abstain from eating meat when among those for whom abstaining from meat is meaningful and important)
There are some things I believe that I won’t say in church – not because I care if others know I believe them but because I care enough about those other people to shut my mouth and not risk causing serious harm when I can avoid it.
Ray, I like the Paul example. What’s the reference for that, I’d like to add it to my ‘middle way’ quotes. (By the way, I see people say CER when asking for a quote/reference. What does it stand for?).
This is the discipline I need to work on. I (quietly) walked out of SS last weekend as the lesson and comments were frustrating to the point of me wondering if I’d be able to keep my mouth shut.
People don’t go to SS to have their faith challenged but strengthened.
I also worry that I say too much on here on things I struggle with. The last thing I want to do is sew new seeds of doubt when mentioning issues of histrocity that they were previously unaware of.
Romans 14:13-21Quote:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Applying this to myself in my own time and life, I am Mormon – and I agree completely with Paul that the each single detail of the Word of Wisdom isn’t all that important to me, in and of itself. It’s not central to the Gospel. However, it is central to the identity of LDS members and is very important to them. Thus, I am fine with the ideal being “adapted” to the “weakest of the weak” and not partaking personally of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, etc. Partaking simply isn’t important enough to me to offend others and harm my relationship with them; worded conversely, my relationship with them is FAR more important than eating and drinking whatever I would if I lived as a hermit. I won’t put food and drink above relationships, and there is NO relationship benefit in my own life that will be better if I reject the Word of Wisdom – while there are LOTS of relationships in my own life that will be worse if I do that.
For me, it’s that simple. Love beats physical pleasure and the need to make my own rules about such trivial things that have no bearing on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Relative to this post, that means, at the most practical level, I am willing to “be myself” by conforming to this particular social marker – and I recognize the counter-intuitive nature of that statement. In this case, I express my agency by choosing to conform – and it’s incredibly important to me, for myself, to make that gesture in support of others.
mackay11 wrote:(By the way, I see people say CER when asking for a quote/reference. What does it stand for?).
I think you may mean “CFR” which stands for Call For Reference(s). It means produce documented source that someone else can check for themselves as to the authenticity of a particular statement. At least, that’s what I hope it means!
🙂 wjclerk wrote:mackay11 wrote:(By the way, I see people say CER when asking for a quote/reference. What does it stand for?).
I think you may mean “CFR” which stands for Call For Reference(s). It means produce documented source that someone else can check for themselves as to the authenticity of a particular statement. At least, that’s what I hope it means!
🙂 Ahah, CFR, and thanks for the explanation.
I guess that’s why I see a lot of it over on MDDB (is that the right shorthand for the mormondialogue board?)
Is there a thread on MDDB? I was curious to see other’s views on it. I felt like I was considered a threat and attacked when I shared some views.
MDDB is one of most vile, bitter, and hate filled Mormon boards I’ve ever participated on. Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
cwald wrote:MDDB is one of most vile, bitter, and hate filled Mormon boards I’ve ever participated on.
While I would tend to agree, it is true to it’s original name Mormon Apologetics Discussion Board (MAD). It does not foster dialog and caters to those who see apologetics as defense of Mormonism by any means necessary. It is a fanclub made up of sycophants for the ilk of Dan Peterson and Bill Hamblin.Making it appear like a site for dialog, they lure unsuspecting people who ask questions. Since the intention is the defense of Mormonism rather than support, questioning immediately brands the newcomer an anti, and a feeding frenzy ensues.
One of their most used tools is “CFR” “Call for reference” where a new poster is challenged to tell where they came up with a doubt or concern. If challenged with a CFR, site rules require you to cite where you got your information. If you cite any source that they consider anti, then another feeding frenzy ensues, attacking you and the source rather than addressing the claim.
You cannot win.
wayfarer wrote:cwald wrote:MDDB is one of most vile, bitter, and hate filled Mormon boards I’ve ever participated on.
While I would tend to agree, it is true to it’s original name Mormon Apologetics Discussion Board (MAD). It does not foster dialog and caters to those who see apologetics as defense of Mormonism by any means necessary. It is a fanclub made up of sycophants for the ilk of Dan Peterson and Bill Hamblin.Making it appear like a site for dialog, they lure unsuspecting people who ask questions. Since the intention is the defense of Mormonism rather than support, questioning immediately brands the newcomer an anti, and a feeding frenzy ensues.
One of their most used tools is “CFR” “Call for reference” where a new poster is challenged to tell where they came up with a doubt or concern. If challenged with a CFR, site rules require you to cite where you got your information. If you cite any source that they consider anti, then another feeding frenzy ensues, attacking you and the source rather than addressing the claim.
You cannot win.
There’s a woman on there that has two kittens as an avatar called (I think) Tacenda. She gets an incredible among of negativity and patronising comments because she persists with quoting ‘antis’ perspective. I can only assume she’s a WUM or enjoys the negative attention.
On the other hand, I find it useful sometimes to get the perspective on histrocity from those who are in full faith. I still hope that one day I’m able to piece it all together and find a full, living testimony. I miss it.
Anyway – sorry OP, I’ve gone off topic.
To (sort of) come back on topic… when I’ve been on MDDB, I actually don’t feel like I can be fully honest with who I am. If I ask a question it’s under a different name and I feel like I should ask it through the lens of faith to even get some reasonable answers rather than be dismissed as an anti. I guess I should ask ‘what would donald trump do…’ – maybe not.
Reality is, the fate of a middlewayist is sometimes you need to be more subtle and understated with your POV, else risk being sidelined at church. Given a lot of people here go to church for the community and emotional support rather than the theology, being ostracised is the last thing we need.
mackay11 wrote:There’s a woman on there that has two kittens as an avatar called (I think) Tacenda. She gets an incredible among of negativity and patronising comments because she persists with quoting ‘antis’ perspective. I can only assume she’s a WUM or enjoys the negative attention.
Tacenda has been here as well. good person…but i think she does love the battle. more power to her.wayfarer wrote:mackay11 wrote:There’s a woman on there that has two kittens as an avatar called (I think) Tacenda. She gets an incredible among of negativity and patronising comments because she persists with quoting ‘antis’ perspective. I can only assume she’s a WUM or enjoys the negative attention.
Tacenda has been here as well. good person…but i think she does love the battle. more power to her.Cool – I’m glad to know she’s genuine. I can imagine coming over to staylds being her respite in the red corner between 2nd and 3rd round in the ring.
So off we go to church today (we’re 12 hours or so ahead of US). It’s my kids’ primary presentation and my 9yo daughter’s picked out a thick pair of stripey tights and a skirt that’s about 3-4 inches above her knee. I’m ok with it but nearly told her to change in case I/she got ‘tuts’ – then stopped myself. Let them tut.
wayfarer wrote:mackay11 wrote:There’s a woman on there that has two kittens as an avatar called (I think) Tacenda. She gets an incredible among of negativity and patronising comments because she persists with quoting ‘antis’ perspective. I can only assume she’s a WUM or enjoys the negative attention.
Tacenda has been here as well. good person…but i think she does love the battle. more power to her.She showed up here for a week or so…about the same time that Wayfarer and I were getting banned from MAD. Haven’t seen her post for several months.
Bishop Reel (Reel Mormon, DB Mormon) is also a member of both StayLDS and MAD.
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