Still here…barely

[Anonymous]

I haven’t been on this forum very much this summer, but now I find myself with nowhere else to turn. I am holding onto my church membership with the very tips of my fingers for the sake of my husband and kids, but it seems like every week gets harder and harder. Whenever I miss a Sunday at church I feel happier and more at peace. I am really dreading tomorrow since it is fast Sunday… testimony meetings are so hard for me to sit through.

Anyway, I am pretty upset about something right now. I have finally figured out why my DH is being so patient and accommodating with me where the church is concerned: he believes I am just going through a phase. I am a bit surprised at how angry this makes me. I am practically seething. He has made no effort to try to understand things from my point of view, and I let it go because I recognize that it is not my place to push him in the direction I have taken. I have done my best to continue to attend church as a family and fulfill my calling (as I always have) to the best of my abilities. A phase??? I asked him outright months ago if he felt like I had been deceived somehow, and he answered “no”, and told me he felt I was smart enough to tell the difference between reliable historical information and anti-mormon propaganda. I really appreciated that, and felt like he had more respect for my position. Now, I find out from my 14-year-old daughter that he has warned her not to put too much emphasis on things I might say about the church since my sources are just random websites (this of course is not true, since most of my study of church history comes from books written by respected historians, many of which are members in good standing with the church, or non-members with no axe to grind). Clearly he is patronizing me. I am not going through a phase. I feel “with every fibre of my being” (sorry couldn’t resist) that this is NOT the one true church in the world. This is not something I am going to eventually “get over”.

I honestly fell like I don’t want to even try to keep up appearances anymore. I have had it.

Maybe things will seem clearer when I have cooled off, but in the mean time I would love to hear any suggestions on how to proceed.

[Anonymous]

Hi Asha,

I can completely understand your position…and your husband’s. We live in a transitional time for the church; What many of us were taught about the history and doctrines have been changed. Some take to the change without much cog-dis…others leave the church over it.

But what I think is helpful to understand is that some have a strong defense mechanism that (usually unconsciously) doesn’t want the conflicting information to be true. They kinda do the “la-la-la-la” sort of thing with fingers in their ears. They don’t want to know. It’s easier for it to not be happening. The way I look at it, it’s neither good or bad, right or wrong…it’s just the way it is…and it helps in the relationship to understand why.

Of course it’s difficult when you have young children. To pit them against you, and undermining your parental authority is wrong, IMO. I think it might be best to have a talk with him and let him know how much this bothers you. Even if you have completely opposite religious beliefs, the only way to be fair to each of you AND the children is to be upfront with them, such as “Mom believes this, and I believe that; you can decide for yourself as you get older what you think is right for you….” Secrets are a recipe for disaster!

A change in beliefs is often the trigger for divorce, and it often challenges the relationship to adapt. Sometimes, particularly in Mormonism, the change is unacceptable to one or both parties, and major work is necessary for the relationship to survive. But I’ve seen many marriages strengthen after the problems are worked through in a mature way. The ole “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” phrase rings true, I think.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Perhaps Fowler’s Stages of Faith would be helpful for you husband to understand that this is not a phase. I know that it has been helpful for me with DW’s difficulties with the church.

Additionally, your spouse may find support at FacesEast.com, which is for spouses of disaffected members, where they can give the perspective that this is not a phase (most of the diasffected spouses have not returned to the church, and those that have returned to activity admit that things can never be the same as they were before they learned the historical facts.)

[Anonymous]

Hi asha,

(((Hugs)))

I was wondering how you were doing, so I am glad that you posted. Not glad to hear that things are not on the upswing. I have to agree with rix that alot of this is a major defense mechanism on the part of your DH. He probably doesn’t even know its a defense mechanism or that the idea that you are going through a phase would be insulting to you. When DH came out to me, I hoped and prayed that he would change back, I was trying to find information to re-convert him back to believing. It took me awhile to figure out that nothing like that was going to happen. Now, I have fully accepted his non belief. I hope you can sit down with DH and tell him that your beliefs have nothing to do with your love for him and DC. Tell him that you are trying to remain somewhat active in the church for the sake of him and DC, but that the support has to go both ways. He needs to support your position and not try to diminish your standing with DC.

Good luck, and keep us posted. (As far as testimony meeting, just go to the bathroom alot!)

[Anonymous]

Hi Asha,

I’m a tad further down the rose-colored path. I have completely dropped my belief in a restoration church. Our church has become just another church, with mostly great people and programs that do help families. I do attend Sacrament because I have but one life to live and I wish to enjoy religion with my children and grandchildren, who also attend my ward. I take a book and if the talk is unpleasant to my ears, I read. But mostly I pass my grandkids around and slip breath mints and gum to the young ones (I know, church custodians hate me, but then I have not seen one of those around of late). I enjoy the hymns, the talks my dear offspring give. I’ve been known to speak myself, and once in the last year, bore a most unusual testimony, but a testimony still about a man called Jesus whose teachings I love and am a advocate for. It works for me and keeps me a culturally a Mormon. I look for fruits of the gospel; goodness, love, peace, long-suffering, etc., and I find them in my life and the lives of my children. I thank the church for that.

Your situation with your DH is difficult. He needs to understand that your level of involvement in the church is your decision period. Your financial contributions are your decision period. Your need (or lack thereof) for a temple recommend is your decision period. That raising children is a task for both parents, and they should use sensitivity when different belief systems are present. Always at Christmas it is my duty to read the story of the Savior’s birth. A few years ago I chose to read it from another version of the Bible (rather than King James). I was set upon as a “vile person” when the kids had all left. I learned my lesson – always ask in advance. Maybe that is a clue, “always ask in advance” and let the opposition leader explain their religious differences, don’t try to do it for them. Keep the marriage first always, human love is what life is all about, the mystery of the ages.

[Anonymous]

Hi Asha, good to hear from you. Sorry about the stress.

I’ve got to agree with Rix and pink. There feels like a breakdown in communication with your DH, when you’re hearing things second-hand and you haven’t told him of your total frustration. Honesty and love will always win out when they’re used liberally and with abandon.

I’m guessing your DH just doesn’t want to talk too much about it in hopes of “ignoring it out of existence”, and I imagine that you don’t bring it up much cause there’s not an understanding ear on the other side.

When I was going through this with my DW, we had the epiphany that we were choosing each other over the individual beliefs/dependencies of each of us. I choose my DW over my disaffection and continue to participate as fully as I can in the church. She chose me over her codependencies on ward members and family by loving me in spite of my disaffection. In short, we chose love and each other, and let the chips fall where they may.

I know this is way oversimplified but it is the essence.

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys. I have really missed this forum, and need to make more time for it. Thanks for the good advice. I did talk to my husband once I had cooled off, and it is clear that he is in denial. I told him emphatically that the way I feel about the church is not going to change. He started making all sorts of excuses for me (sort of to justify for himself that his wife isn’t really an apostate) such as: well you are still following the commandments, you don’t attend the temple but you are worthy to, you still come to church, blah, blah, blah. I know that he loves me, and that is why he is doing this, so maybe I should just leave well enough alone. I just can’t help thinking that if he is looking for a celestial wife he needs to look elsewhere. Or, the other possibility is that maybe deep down he has his doubts about the church too, and his main concern is keeping up appearances.

[Anonymous]

I just can’t help thinking that if he is looking for a celestial wife he needs to look elsewhere.

Ok, girlfriend, you can stop that line of thought right now.

Seriously, don’t let those kinds of thoughts take root. They are poison.

[Anonymous]

Just going to throw out another slightly different perspective to talk about:

Everything is a phase.

I don’t mean this in the way your DH is thinking about it, but you are in a phase. He is in a phase. I am in a phase. Everyone here is in a phase. I’ll bet you a steak dinner that if we met up 20 years from now, you will believe differently or at least have a different perspective.

The denial part is your DH hoping and expecting that you will walk backwards at the end of this phase, whatever this phase is. You won’t. There is only forwards. You could go forward and be comfortable in the Church, even love it again, but you will never see it the same way. That is possible direction. You may go some other direction too. Whatever it is, it won’t be back to the old you.

[Anonymous]

asha – I’m so glad you are back!

I couldn’t agree more with Valoel. Everything in life is a phase. It’s all in flux. Your feelings about the church WILL change – you might not believe whereas now you don’t, but you will see things differently at 60 than at 40 and at 80 than at 30. Life is not static. We change constantly. You will view your DH differently. He will view you differently. Our kids view us differently at different stages. But people make the mistake of thinking that THEY are the one thing that is constant and that others are changing when they shouldn’t. We think we are constant, but we are not. If we were, we’d be dead, both physically and spiritually.

[Anonymous]

asha. I hope things work out for your and your Dh. Your story sounds similar to my DW and mine. I was the one that thought my DW was going through a phase and if she prayed more, studied the scipts more and attended the temple more the phase would pass and we could go back to our happy TBM life. The problem was, I also had lots of issues stacked on my shelf that just needed a nudge to bring the whole shelf down. After a couple months and my wifes phase did not pass and she became even more depressed, I had to come clean and share my own reservations and concerns.

I think the thing that helped DW and I, was our mutual willingness to work the issue out together. We are not there yet, but we are much happier now that we have both come clean on where we are. The key to working through any issues of this magnatude is to be open and honest with each other. You also have to be willing to acknowledge your DHs pain and frustration. You only have to acknowledge it, you dont have to take it on as your own.

Anyway, I hope things work our for you, your family and you DW.

It is hard enough to be a member of this church, but it is even harder when you do not fully believe, but it is possible. You just have to make it work for you.

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

asha – I’m so glad you are back!

I couldn’t agree more with Valoel. Everything in life is a phase. It’s all in flux. Your feelings about the church WILL change – you might not believe whereas now you don’t, but you will see things differently at 60 than at 40 and at 80 than at 30. Life is not static. We change constantly. You will view your DH differently. He will view you differently. Our kids view us differently at different stages. But people make the mistake of thinking that THEY are the one thing that is constant and that others are changing when they shouldn’t. We think we are constant, but we are not. If we were, we’d be dead, both physically and spiritually.

Wow Hawk. I really appreciate this.

[Anonymous]

notsureanymore wrote:

The key to working through any issues of this magnatude is to be open and honest with each other. You also have to be willing to acknowledge your DHs pain and frustration. You only have to acknowledge it, you dont have to take it on as your own.

Wonderfully beautiful, notsure! This may be the key to almost everything in life.

[Anonymous]

I am filled with empathy as I read your thread. Your husband is seeing everything as black and white. But thats normal since thats what the church teaches us to do. He is still trying to mentally work out if you are worthy so that he can define whether you are bad or good. You and I and every person on this thread has been conditioned the exact same way to look at everything as black and white. The mere fact that you are feeling that you have to define the church as true or false shows that you are still seeing things in that perspective that we have all been taught to govern everything by. I am beginning to feel that its actually probably more of a grey area, that ones husbands feeling, opinions, judgments and all things at church are grey also. Just my opinion.

I really feel for you. It is soo hard when you have children. When I discovered the problems with the history I was absolutely devastated to say the least. I felt my whole world had fallen apart I did not know who I was, I did not know anything. I went from crying hysterically to just a deep sense of very lonely mourning. I tried to find peace in shouting aloud its not true its a fraud, but I didn’t I just felt more empty. I have slowly calmed down enough to recently ( very much to do with this site) feel a sense of peace. That its ok if its not clear cut, that I want to partake in the good of my faith, that I can accept the shades of grey. My advice would be to look for peace not right or wrong, just a feeling of calmness. You might need to sit in the church for five years in the “grey” as I call it, before you feel the necessity to move on or decide its a good place for you, but thats ok thats not bailing out on your true feelings it is just allowing time to heal a little.

I agree with all the posts regarding your marriage. It is VERY important that you cling to it with all you have.( I am assuming that its a good one!) I have sometimes buried my head in my husbands chest knowing that my love for him was the only real thing in my life that I could be sure of. Dont allow your old paradigms of what constitutes a celestial marriage to shape your view of your relationship.

[Anonymous]

Swim and Rix are right. I think my DH would rather just ignore the whole issue with the hopes that it will just go away. It is foolish of me to push it, since it will clearly be a source of contention. I am trying to look on the positive side of things and appreciate the fact that my DH is not trying to force his will on mine, is not being controlling or domineering in any way. He is a patient and kind man and a wonderful father. For now anyway I think I just need to leave well enough alone.

What is going to bring this to the surface again and again though is our kids. It always comes back to them. They are the reason I was forced to re-evaluate where I stood with the church in the first place. I NEVER had a testimony in the conventional sense, but when you have little children who believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, you never feel pressured by them to justify your family religion. When your kids get into their teens it is a different story altogether. After walking around with my head in a fog, and going through the motions at church for almost 15 years, it was my 14-year-old daughter who snapped me out of my daze by asking me what I really believe. My need for honesty with her questions is what has brought me to where I am today.

So, where to proceed from here? I have told my DH that I am committed to attend church with him as a family and raise the kids in the church as long as that is what he wants. However, I know that I am having an influence on my children that could be contrary to what he would like to see for them. For example, a few days ago my 14-year-old daughter startled me and my best friend as we were chatting together in the kitchen by announcing that she has no desire to get married in the temple. My friend, until a recent move out of the ward, had been my daughter’s YW president for the past two years. My daughter is by no means what you would call rebellious (she has too much of her father in her for that). She has been top of her class for he past four years, is a total bookworm, is the only beehive who has almost completed her Personal Progress program, blah, blah, you get the idea (in other words she is nothing like me). When we asked her why she wouldn’t want to get married in the temple, she simply stated that she wanted her grandparents (my non-member parents) to be at her wedding, and if the church wouldn’t let them see her get sealed in the temple then she had no desire to be married there.

My reaction was nothing but pride for her strong sense of loyalty to her grandparents. I was really impressed with her. At the same time I was relieved that this conversation took place out of my DH’s earshot.

So, I guess the you-know-what is going to hit the fan at some point. Maybe I should just enjoy this calm before the storm.

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