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Hi everyone, I’m in need of some support. I’m a male in my 40’s, BIC, RM, MIT. I am trying to stay connected and active in the church. Had a faith crisis about 3-4 years ago. I’ve had high local leadership callings in the church–won’t go into detail. Mostly have worked through the crisis/transition but I am just not the same nor do I expect to be. DW wants the “old me” back. I try to tell her that I still care about the the church and I still have a testimony but it is just different and she thinks I have completlely “lost my testimony” which is devastating for her. It’s true that BOM as literal history has collapsed. Still believe JS was a prophet but did a lot of crazy bad things. I’m very connected to Bushmans, Givens’ and Joanna Brooks in my thinking about the church. Have a lot of concern about LGBT and Feminist issues. DW has been torn apart by all this and I am trying to strengthen our marriage. I go to church and I have a calling but nobody knows what is going on with me inside. Only my wife knows. It would devastate my family and friends if they knew. I have to work for the first time in my life at faith and belief. I am choosing to believe but it is hard work. I want to make my Mormonism work for me. My main issue is just getting support in trying to reconstruct my faith and get my marriage healthier. Thanks for listening.
-HAW
Welcome HAW, My catalyst event – changed my internal world. In reconstructing this world and engaging in the process of healing I had to question each piece of the former construction. IOW now that the building has collapsed does a particular beam have a place in the new building or should it be discarded? I hadn’t yet learned to be more circumspect about my evolving beliefs and had frequent visits from my HT/EQ pres. to help me. He insisted that I was “struggling” even after I told him that I disagreed with that term and characterization. He also told me the story about the stage coach driver on treacherous mountain roads that succeeded by staying as far from the edge as possible. For him the only way to see the change in me was one of apostasy and “playing with fire.” OTOH I had to trust that my internal spirit/soul/God within/psyche knew instinctively how to recover from my assumptive world collapse and was doing what God had ordained/programmed it to do. In some very real ways I believe I was being compelled by needs deeper than my conscious thinking and decision making self.
What does this have to do with you? 1) that I see a lot of myself in you. 2) that it is sad (but understandable) that your DW, family, and friends would be devastated by your growth beyond Fowler stage 3.
Head Above Water wrote:I have to work for the first time in my life at faith and belief. I am choosing to believe but it is hard work. I want to make my Mormonism work for me. My main issue is just getting support in trying to reconstruct my faith and get my marriage healthier.
The road of growth beyond is in many ways a solitary road. This can take a significant amount of getting used to. As for your marriage, it may help to emphasize that you are still the same person and are still as committed to her and the kids as you ever were. It may also help if you tell her that you won’t make any changes without talking to her first (WoW, garments, church attendance, tithing payments). This may help her to allow time to get used to your new perspective without worrying (as much) that your new perspective will dramatically alter the playing field of your marriage.
You sure have come to the right place as StayLDS is uniquely supportive of our particular challenges. I look forward to learning more from you and your experiences.
Head Above Water wrote:I go to church and I have a calling but nobody knows what is going on with me inside. Only my wife knows. It would devastate my family and friends if they knew. I have to work for the first time in my life at faith and belief. I am choosing to believe but it is hard work. I want to make my Mormonism work for me. My main issue is just getting support in trying to reconstruct my faith and get my marriage healthier. Thanks for listening.
Hi, Head Above Water –
The stress and strain of “hiding” is great. Church culture can’t go on like this, in my opinion, but in the meantime you found this site and it’s a sanity-saver! Huge weight off my shoulders, and I hope it is for you, too.
It’s your call, of course, but would it do any good to tell your wife that Bushman, Givens and even Brooks are considered pretty darn mainstream? That’s my impression. And that they appear to have the blessing of the church as they function publicly.
I could have used the same introduction in many aspect. I am a little older but other than that pretty much the same. I don’t mind doing all the church things but it is just not the same. I will tithe, maybe not quite the same way but I do it more out of obligation and for different reasons then I use to pay. Nothing is the same in many aspect but I do wish in some ways that it could be. When I hear the Brethren speak I don’t really feel like they are the mouth piece for God but good men trying the best they can to reach a certain goal and I am not too sure if that goal is the one I want to reach myself. I think that I can get what God wants me to do without having Him tell some one else so that they can tell me. My wife doesn’t like the idea that I don’t believe the same way and would much prefer that I would go back to the old me, but I know that I nerver will. Anyway, it sounds like this can be a great place to find the support you are looking for and also to express some of your ideas. I am glad you found us and look forward to hearing more from you.
I have almost no time right now, but I do want to welcome you to the group. We’ve been compared to the Island of Misfit Toys on occasion, but we fit together pretty well. Welcome! I will reiterate what others have always said “we are the misfits”.. 🙂 And I have never been so happy to be a part of any such “club”.There are some things that really helped me. First was reading “Stages of Faith” in Ray’s or Brians perspective. I also bought the book, which I really like. (Although I must admit that it is not an easy read, for me at least. But once I figure out what he is saying I love it. haha.) Here is what Ray wrote in on the website… I will try to find the link. Lots of good stuff, I wanted to post several more. Hwwgrrls comment from this link is also one of my faves regarding stages 4-5.
http://mormonexpression.com/2009/11/03/episode-25-fowler-stages-of-faith/ I printed it out and actually shared it with my class at school . They loved it!
Here are some of my fave quotes:
Quote:Ray wrote:As wordy as I can get at times, I like to try to distill things down to their essence. To me, the stages of faith concept means:
Stage 3: A black-and-white, unquestioning mindset. Understanding based on words of others. Desire to “convince” others. “External” peace.
Stage 3.5: Some questioning, but never to the point of threatening core assumptions.
Stage 4: Confusion and pain and anger caused by the shattering of Stage 3 mindset. Still a desire to “convince” – just not of previous beliefs. Easy to return to Stage 3, just with different beliefs – often articulated by opposite side of previous belief structure.
Stage 4.5: Some certainty after sorting through the rubble and finding some core personal belief structure. Beginning of recognition of personal responsibility – for self and for others.
Stage 5: Acceptance of personal responsibility. Peace in building individual paradigm. Pure acceptance of differing paradigms. Focus on sharing and strengthening peace of others, rather than convincing and challenging.
Stage 6: Very hard to define, but, in Mormon terms, I would say it is the internalization of perfection (becoming complete, whole, fully developed) within the context of an individual, non-judgmental path – one that focuses on what we become internally and not measured in any way in comparison to anyone else. I think it’s more of a goal than a reality, but I do think it’s an important goal – and I don’t think mortality is truly “full” without at least a recognition of the need to be walking a Stage 6 path. It’s being at complete peace with the gap between the ideal and the real – not only for one’s self, but also for others. It’s total acceptance of others simply for who they are, no conditions, no qualifiers. In a sense, it’s unconditional love of self and all others.
Quote:from Brian: a change in stage is a transition from one type of structure to another. The content of one’s faith is a different question. Fowler talks about *how* someone believes, not what they believe. So someone moving from Stage 4 to Stage 5 might very well change the content of their faith at the same time they change the structure (i.e. leave the Church and go to another). They could leave, or they might stay in the Church. Stage 5 is about
diving back into faith content with eyes wide open. I feel that this is where I am an it hurts… I go to stage 4.. get pissed and I can easily see myself going to stage 3 if I lead with anger and pain.
This site is REALLY helping me redefine WHY I go to church. I am trying to go to find ways to serve with the knowledge that it is not for me. My quiet study, writing and mediation is my time for spirituality at home.
I wish you the best and much peace!
Welcome. This site is such a fantastic place to go where people “get it”. To me being Mormon comprises two distinct parts. The first part is what we believe such as the history and doctrine. The second part is living clean, serving, and generally striving to be good human beings. The second part I wager is more important to your wife.
I think often when we lose our religion; our morals can be compromised as part of our exploratory process. Proceeding with caution is a must when someone is married if you don’t want to hurt your spouse. As long as you show her your internal compass of right and wrong hasn’t changed, I would think over time she will be able to relax about your faith crisis. If you do decide to make changes I loved the suggestions to ask her how that would make her feel. Also have you looked at the website Faces East for her? That seemed like a great place for TBM wives with spouses in faith crisis.
Having a faith crisis is a lot like discovering that Santa is not a magical sleigh driving man living at the North Pole. Instead, Santa is an overweight guy wearing a fake beard who works at the mall. But either way there are still some great lessons to be learned by Santa even if we know things aren’t exactly what we got told. Welcome to stage 4.
BTW I loved the thought of a faith crisis being similar to building a new building after ripping down the old. Exactly where I am at.
opentofreedom wrote:There are some things that really helped me. First was reading “Stages of Faith” in Ray’s or Brians perspective. I also bought the book, which I really like. (Although I must admit that it is not an easy read, for me at least. But once I figure out what he is saying I love it. haha.) Here is what Ray wrote in on the website… I will try to find the link. Lots of good stuff, I wanted to post several more. Hwwgrrls comment from this link is also one of my faves regarding stages 4-5.
http://mormonexpression.com/2009/11/03/episode-25-fowler-stages-of-faith/
I enjoyed the mormonexpression podcast very much. It was a good introducton, full of real examples and wise advice. Like opentofreedom I also really liked hawkgrrrl’s thought-provoking comment about carpe diem/memori morti and on into “killing the Buddha.” All new to me.
Do the reconstruction here, and don’t share it with your wife. My wife shuts down when I share it with her. Keep serving at church but do so in the capacity you feel most comfortable with. I would also increase the deposits in your marriage in other ways. For example, there is a site called marriagebuilders.com where the author describes prevalent needs in many marriages. There is a quesionnaire you can do to make your wife’s needs more explicit and conscious in your marraige. Then you can work at meeting those needs even better than you do now. For example, if she has a high need for conversation, or affection, do more of that to meet her needs. This could potentially compensate for the lack of church commitment she is seeing. This has worked so far at points in my marriage. It ebbs and flows but I do increase affection, conversation and non-church aspects of family commitment when things go awry and it helps. Also, don’t obsess about the faith issues or spend too much time posting on sites like these so it becomes a hobby. Do only as much as you need to in order to deal with the most important issue, and stick to the issues that bother you — don’t let it open the floodgates of other topics that can further melt testimony or faith. That is a risk you take when you venture onto sites like these. I started with disappointment with local leaders for their behavior and I guess I always had latent cultural aversion in the church. Posting here has kind of augmented the latter item to the point I really don’t like church culture at all.
On the other hand, I did come up with a new way of looking at my time devoted to service, and have joined a community organization instead where I devote my service time, and its opened up a whole new world for me that I love. And its service to mankind — just as valid as church work, and I still do hometeaching. It doesnt’ always have to be about the church…..that is where I ended up from posting here. So I am still active, and held teaching callings for a few years after my crisis and could hold them again if I lived in the ward I’m attending. All while not buying into everything anymore.
That’s my autobiographical advice.
Hey HAW! (Sorry I couldn’t resist) Welcome! Goldilocks wrote:Having a faith crisis is a lot like discovering that Santa is not a magical sleigh driving man living at the North Pole. Instead, Santa is an overweight guy wearing a fake beard who works at the mall.
True the mall guy is a physical representation of Santa, but I like to think of the “true” Santa as the spirit of Christmas that is brought to life by everyone that embraces it; especially all the parents who act as “Santa’s helpers” and quite literally do Santa’s work. Santa lives, I am very serious about that.
I also realized recently as I listened to a Terryl Givens speech on YouTube that I do believe in Gold Plates. It will probably take me the rest of my life to fully understand what that statement really means to me, because it’s not necessarily a literal thing the way most people would assume, but I have to admit the plates are somehow a part of me and I no longer embarrassed by the strictly literal understanding of my past.
Head Above Water wrote:It would devastate my family and friends if they knew.
I used to think that way, but it hurt a lot, and it turns out that it’s not true. Sure, they will be sad. It’s not good for you to feel that your secrecy is the key to happiness for others. And frankly, it’s not fair to them. This type of thinking is what sank me into depression, hurt my relationship with others, and made me resentful. Be open and honest, when the time is right. The single most important card you hold is what kind of a person you are. If that hasn’t changed, then you have nothing to fear by telling people you love that you no longer believe in the same way that you used to, but that you are working at finding a way that works for you, and that you still love them, need them more than ever, and are still a good guy.Some important questions to ask yourself… figure out the answers… tell your wife/family/friends…
– do you still love your wife as much, maybe more than ever now?
– do you support the faith of others in the church?
– do you want to destroy the church or members of the church?
– do you hope your kids serve missions and marry in the temple if that is what they want?
– do you still think the church is good, even though your belief in it has changed?
Quote:True the mall guy is a physical representation of Santa, but I like to think of the “true” Santa as the spirit of Christmas that is brought to life by everyone that embraces it; especially all the parents who act as “Santa’s helpers” and quite literally do Santa’s work. Santa lives, I am very serious about that.
Thanks for finishing where I was trying to go on that thought. Small kids=Cutting corners on everything, including communication!
My point was to say it’s OK if people in a faith crisis see things different than before. The overall good is still there.
🙂 Dear HAW, When my husband had his third crisis of faith he, he was a high councilman in the stake. He said it felt like finding out that the person you married misrepresented themselves. They said they could ‘cook’, loved kids, and were great at finances but after living with them you found out that was not true. They still had alot of good qualities and you still loved them, but you felt betrayed and disillusioned. So, then you have to decide whether you can live with that or leave. You choose to stay because there is enough good there and for your family but it is not quite the same. I think you know what your wife’s fears are. She is insecure in her own faith perhaps and of loosing everything that she thought was real in her life. So be empathetic and ask her what her greatest fears are and share your own fears with her. We are all afraid of having our bubbles burst but we have to decide whether we want to live in truth and reality or denial.
I was upset and angry at first when my husband left the church and my sons did not go on missions. Then I had my own crisis of faith that was very hard. But, I found that prayer really works and that when you pray for your mate and family God opens the doors to inspiration and light that ultimately bring growth and joy.
Wow. I am really floored by the great counsel from all y’all. Thank you. Very sincerely–thank you. Things are going pretty good–I’m still keeping my head above water!
And I am going to go forward with much of your counsel and I think it will continue to help me and my marriage.
For the non-faith crisis spouse, your doubts can feel like a betrayal, like you are rejecting her and her worldview. In reality, it is tough to separate the two. I think it’s important to focus on how subjective our church experience is. What works well for her may be bad for you and vice-versa. People have to find their own way, but you have to respect that diversity of experience and still love your spouse for the person they are, not who you wish they were and never could be. As long as you can show her that your love for her is as strong as ever, you should be able to weather the storm. But control is what kills a marriage. Controlling behavior is the opposite of respect and love. Hang in there and welcome to the site!
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