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Staying LDS is getting harder for me every day. If JS were the prophet today, I would have no trouble walking away from what was obviously a cult full of lunatics. But I am trying to stay in the church for family unity since my husband, children and extended family are all TBMs, but I no longer agree with almost every point of doctrine and teaching of which I used to have such a strong testimony. Everything rubs me the wrong way and I feel like a hypocrite since I am sill very much in the closet (my DH does know and is as accepting as he can be as a TBM in grief). So here is my question. Outside of the obvious reason of staying for the sake of family unity, why do you stay? What does the church provide for you that you can’t find elsewhere? Hi Falcosp, First off, welcome to the community! Would love to learn more about you if you want to post an introduction. Second thing: perhaps you shouldn’t stay. I know this site is called “StayLDS,” but we aren’t here to convince everyone to stay. Staying isn’t the single right answer for everyone. We’re here to talk about how to stay (and enjoy it) if someone wants to explore that idea, if it is something they want to do. I just wanted to clarify that nuance. You really shouldn’t feel like you
haveto stay. I know though, there are real social consequences either way. Once you wake up to this conundrum, there usually isn’t an all-win direction to go. It’s all a grey area mixture of benefits and consequences. We all know that problem intimately. We’re there too. falcosp wrote:but I no longer agree with almost every point of doctrine and teaching of which I used to have such a strong testimony.
This statement jumped out at me. I like to explore this with people, because in my view, the Church is pretty plain-vanilla and somewhat milquetoast most of the time. I’m talking about the actual words and ideas said on any given Sunday in a lesson or meeting. It’s often not that far from generic protestant Christianity.
Did you have a testimony of faith, repentance (making your life better, not some horrible doomsday guilt thing), baptism and following the Spirit (your conscience, free-agency, personal revelation)? What about the teachings of “families are forever” and positive community environment? How about serving those who are in need and are downtrodden, and showing compassion like the Savior? Teachings of universal salvation for all humankind, and universal relation and connection with all humans regardless of nation (we are all brothers and sisters)? How about the freedom from creeds, and the spirit of exploring God through study and personal revelation?
But I find a lot of people who say they disagree with the Church are often thinking of the most troubling issues from the 19th century past like: polygamy / polyandry, blood-atonement, far out speculative theology from BY and Orson Pratt, millennial end-times doomsday the world is going to hell in a hand basket, and of course the temple experience. Except for the temple, the Church has been trying to distance itself from that stuff for 100 years or more. You don’t really ever hear that stuff talked about because
everyoneis uncomfortable with it (if they even know it at all). So what teachings do you disagree so strongly with?
Oh yeah. You asked why we stay. I can only answer for myself. I stay because I like to be there. I enjoy it. I don’t stay because it is “true” (in the sense that many member think of that concept). I’ve spend a couple years becoming comfortable setting personal boundaries. I participate in what I want. I allow myself to be challenged at times to provide service to others. I think there are some really great people in the wards I have attended. I like being part of a religious community. But I also don’t feel trapped or super attached. I might just as easily skip a meeting, not attend sometimes, or even go visit another church occasionally if that interests me.
I also really enjoy associating with other men who focus on being good husbands and good, involved, loving fathers. It is a really nice support network for that. When I am hanging out with these other men, I am encouraged and supporting in these life decisions (I am married with kids).
Could I get all this elsewhere? Yes. I could probably piece it together using other churches and social clubs, I suppose. But I grew up Mormon. I know the language. I know the culture. I know how the “system” works. I often feel like I would be trading one set of baggage and junk for just another if I jumped ship and pieced it all together on my own. I already know how to deal with the crap in the Church I grew up in.
I supplement my spiritual growth from many other faith traditions too, in my personal spirituality.
Falcosp, I am fairly new to Staying, I understand that it can be very difficult to listen once you realize that it is “all made up.” But like Brian said you can usually find something good in the Church. I agree that staying might not always be the right answer. However, after having a few friends leave and attempt to replace the religion with other churches I have decided that I am not going to trade one cult for another.
I do recognize that we all have different church experiences based on family and the ward we live in. For me I was very close to leaving and I may leave one day. I don’t have the family pressures you do, my wife is ambivalent to the whole thing. I have decided right now that I own my spirituality and there is nothing the Church or its members are going to do that is going to make me change or conform to what they want me to be. I own my relationship with God not the Church. A few things that have helped me is I have eliminated all of the things I don’t like or don’t believe in. I don’t go to the temple, the G’s sometimes don’t get put on, there is the occasional mild barely drink, ultimately the Church has no power over me. I own my life and that is good enough for me.
Three weeks ago I was ready to leave but I had a realization that their is more for me to do in the Church. There have been a lot of people who have helped me and my family and I have a lot of helping left to do. If I never get anything more out of it than an opportunity to help than so be it.
Take your time and go slow I am still knee deep in it and all I can say is you are in for a wild ride no matter you decision. Hang out here for a while, the people are great and it is a wonderful place to help put life back into perspective.
I think that is well said and great advice Behappy. I +1 it. falcosp wrote:Outside of the obvious reason of staying for the sake of family unity, why do you stay?
I like the way it helps me to shape my thoughts – and reach for personal growth. I have always heard the message that there are many levels of learning and understanding, that most topics have a literal and a symbolic lesson that can be pulled from them. Heard but not internalized. I remember being taught that the temple experience is mostly symbolic. I used to try to cram everything into my literal framework. Now I sometimes feel like a kid in a candy store searching out all the metaphorical meanings in church.
It does help a great deal that I have always been comfortable in church and with the lifestyle. In the couple “pre-examination” years I used to tell myself “it doesn’t matter, even if it isn’t all true I still wouldn’t change a thing in my life.” I think that statement demonstrates my comfort level with what is familiar. I admit it must be much harder for the people who “never really liked church.” I can see how there may be nothing left for them to hold onto.
At the same time I wonder if a new outlook is exactly what some people might need to actually enjoy church. It can be what you make of it. In most wards I think the buffet can be more open than people originally think.
I do understand and have experienced all the thoughts and emotions that you are going through. The heat of crisis is not a fun place to be, and I know it makes everything about church nauseating. I remember driving by church buildings during those days and feeling my stomach turn just at the sight of the building. The fire does eventually die down, and the resulting embers can be used to fuel some positive actions in your life.
Quote:behappy wrote…
I own my relationship with God not the Church. A few things that have helped me is I have eliminated all of the things I don’t like or don’t believe in.
This is working for me also, nice post behappy
Quote:
falcosp wroteI no longer agree with almost every point of doctrine and teaching of which I used to have such a strong testimony
preach on!!! falcosp
Falcosp, Nice to see you here. I stay for family mostly and because I feel that God placed me in this situation for a purpose. Now, my idea of God is changing and my whole spiritual outlook has basically done a 180 but I still feel that God has a purpose for me and part of my learning experience is to be involved with the LDS church. I feel that I will learn compassion very quickly within the church and while difficult and exhausting (seriously exhausting) I attend church consistently.
Besides, you should have seen how happy my dh was when I attended Sunday School with him on Sunday. Giddy I tell you and well that made it worth it. (I hadn’t attended S.S. for well over a year due to just not being able to handle the subject matter) I don’t think we should always put others happiness ahead of our own but in this case it is worth it for me to be in a situation that causes me to grow and bring joy to my dh.
I am trying to deal with church on my own terms, being very careful to understand why I attend, accept callings and continue to be apart of the church culture. Sometimes I stay because its the easiest route at the moment. It all so confusing at times.
CG
I stay because my kids are showing traction with the clean living. I stay because I have a few friends there; not many, but a few. I also stay because of spiritual experiences which I can’t deny happened, and which make me believe I should stay. I stay because I love the theology and “cosmology”, because it’s the truest thing for me I’ve found, because I don’t really care all that much about what people think of me, because I’ve carved out a place from which my heterodoxy doesn’t matter and isn’t a threat at all to most others, because I really love the people in my ward (even those with whom I tend to disagree quite strongly), because my wife and kids absolutely love the Church, because plenty of other people outside the Church actually envy the peace and happiness I’ve found in “my faith” and have been helped in real and lasting ways by it, because I’m too lazy or not radical enough to want to make a major change to something else with which I will agree even less (at the “pure” theoretical level), because I’ve learned to let most of the cultural crap roll off my back, because I can talk about those things with which I disagree that people say at church with my wife and kids without them being threatened by it, because I have a deep and abiding “testimony” of what I perceive to be the core principles of the Gospel, because I’m Mormon at heart, etc. I stay largely because it’s part of who I am and because of some very intense, very personal, very powerful experiences that also simply are part of ME.
I’m not real sure why I stay to be honest. Sometimes it really sucks. I guess right now I stay because the “spirits” tell me to remain until further notice. Hi Falcosp, I just joined this community today as well. Here’s what I can say, for what it’s worth…
Because a very natural human desire is to be part of a community, and religion/faith fills a deep emotional need. That said, there is probably no such thing as a “perfect” church or religious organization. There may be some communities which are a better fit than others depending on your worldview, but none of them will be perfect – and it won’t take long before those flaws start to become apparent.
If it’s “perfection” we are after, we will ALWAYS be let down. Instead, I try to look at it from what is good and valuable to me and my family.
– Have you had positive experiences within the LDS church?
– Do you feel that activity in the LDS church is beneficial to your family?
– Do you value the relationships you have within the LDS church?
If the answer to these is “yes,” then why does there have to be more than that? Why is it important whether it’s any more or less “true” than any other church?
If the answer is “no,” then perhaps it’s time for some soul searching and candid discussions with your spouse about where the church is failing to meet these needs.
I like the idea of not expecting perfection. A wise monk once said: “Blessed is he who expects nothing from his Church, for he shall not be disappointed”.
One line of thinking I hope to adopt is this — try to serve and attending without expecting the Church to be anything at all. Sounds Buddha like. Fix your wanter and peace may well ensue.
Because of my family. Period. Which is easy to say when you know you’re not leaving, and it’s possible that if I walked away, I would miss it. Having said that, and knowing that I’m not going anywhere, it’s not terribly difficult to find reasons why staying is good for me, though quite often it boils down to “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” I am on a mission of sorts I think. At least that is what I tell myself. I am not out to convert others to my way of thinking but I do want to have the opportunity to help open their minds to so much more than Mormonism allows. Have to be rather careful though or I will not have to leave because I will be kicked out. I stay, if you can call it staying, because, well, because I am LDS. I have probably been to an LDS ward at least half the time (???) in the past year. When I attend the UU Church, I tell them, “I’m LDS.” They say, “Oh, we have lots of ex-mormons here.” I just smile and enjoy the ex-mormons and the rest of the UU’s and I stay LDS.
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