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I treat the Sabbath just like any day of the week. If I need to work, I do it. I tend to avoid strenuous, monotonous work I detest on the Sabbath, but that is more of an excuse than a Sabbath day observance. For example, I find Sundays the best day to work on my part-time studies. When I would go to church on that day, I would be stressed all week. No renewal whatsoever. When I work on the materials on Sunday, I normally finish them and can relax the rest of the week. Less stress.
My family frustrates me a bit. On Sunday, they don’t have jobs and refuse to go shopping. They are available, but insist on sleeping and refuse to do anything together of any note. They are pretty strict in Sabbath observance. When my daughter leaves home, she’ll have a string of napping Sundays under her belt and no memorable family experiences on those Sundays I was free and able to spend time with them….oh well…
I love to lay out on a pool float and drift. Maybe fall asleep while drifting. Let’s call it “Vitamin D Therapy”. To me, that is the ultimate in restful events. Our children used to not be able to play with friends on Sunday. It was family time. Then we got down to our last child and she didn’t have anyone to play with. We invited her BFF over for Sunday afternoon. We were told her BFF could only play with siblings on the sabbath. I thought back and wondered who we had excluded through our perceived righteousness. Now our Sundays are about including more people. Inclusion .. Not exclusion. I think God would approve.
Example: years ago, we would have people over for Sunday dinner. We would tell them to go home, put on casual clothes, and come eat pot roast with us. These families would show up in Sunday clothes, the kids were miserable, and the parents just wouldn’t/couldn’t relax. I looked at the situation and I made one change that changed everything.
We started inviting people over for WAFFLES instead of pot roast. Suddenly, people went home and changed into casual clothes, they let their kids relax, the parents chilled out. We changed nothing but what we served — but the perception of waffles vs pot roast changed everything. Those events turned into full WAFFLE FESTS .. Wall to wall people wolfing down waffles .. Kids in the trees .. On the fence .. Lots of bonding going on. God’s work.
I cross posted this response from another thread: My 9 yr old daughter swims on the community swim team. Recently an LDS friend asked how we deal with many of the meets being on Sunday. I answered, “We go to the meet.” She seemed a little taken aback, laughed awkwardly and said, “Yeah, well there is that.” I elaborated by explaining that many meets are held in regional cities and span both Saturday and Sunday. We sign up for the Saturday morning events and then drive back home in plenty of time to be in church the next day. There are two exceptions annually. The first is the big local swim meet that our team hosts. This is the time when all the parents are asked to be volunteers in an “all hands on deck” event. DW and I both skip church to help run this event that is important for the continued survival of the team. The second exception is a meet in a small rural town that is geared towards the under 10 crowd. It is a great experience with camping permitted right around the community pool. It is just too far to make a day trip out of it.
I just refuse to be a “church on Sunday at all costs” type of person and I make no apologies for it. Church will ALWAYS be there. There are some really good experiences that might never come around again.
I’ve been reviewing what the scriptures say about what to do or not do on the sabbath day. Deuteronomy 5:12-14 essentially repeats what Exodus 20 says and has a bit more detail. It says, “in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass,
nor any of thy cattle…” That highlighted part is interesting to me because I grew up in an orthodox Mormon home but we milked the cows on Sundays. Oh well. Leviticus 23:3 says the sabbath is a day of “an holy convocation” (the NIV reads “a day of sacred assembly”).
The most troubling account in the scriptures regarding the sabbath is found in Numbers 15:32-36. It’s the story of the guy who got caught gathering sticks and “the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him…”
Nehemiah 10:31 says the people made an agreement saying, “And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath…” I guess this could be why many people don’t shop on Sundays.
Jeremiah 17:21 throws out this bombshell: “Thus saith the Lord; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem…” (the NIV reads “Be careful not to carry a load”). Seriously, the people were told they couldn’t carry anything? Well, it could mean that the people were not to carry large loads of work-related stuff (the NLT has a unique translation, which is “Stop carrying on your trade at Jerusalem’s gates”).
There’s really not much more in the scriptures about it. Don’t work, don’t carry burdens, and don’t buy stuff from people. Well, there’s also Isaiah 58:13, which talks about not “doing thy pleasure” or “finding thine own pleasure”. If it weren’t for that, I could feel good about having all sorts of fun. But then I have to consider D&C 59:9-13:
Quote:And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High; Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times; But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.
And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.
It seems to say we can do the following andnothingelse: -Offer up sacraments and oblations
-Confess sins
-Prepare food with singleness of heart
:think: I love the focus on making church more Christ-centered and spiritual on Sunday. I have been saying for a long, long time that we need to make our worship service, especially, more meaningful and that it is perhaps the single most important retention/reactivation effort we can make. I love the idea of each member and family determining what it means to keep the Sabbath Day holy.
I think this will be wonderful in many places and . . . not wonderful . . . in others – dependent entirely on how the local leadership interprets the message and how to accomplish the objective.
Leadership roulette is real – but, overall, I LOVE this focus from the top leadership.
Goody two shoes point here – Quote:I don’t remember which apostle it was in the training but he said the Brethren spent a great deal of time fasting and praying about this and are united in believing keeping the Sabbath will fix some of he problems in the church (paraphrased, of course).
Answer – Jeffrey Holland
Disagreement –
Quote:I agree that if Nelson becomes president his focus will be the Sabbath.
No – Donuts!
AP – Waffles for the Win!
Lastly – I’m all about the nap.
We used the 5th Sunday combined meeting to discuss the Sabbath training in our ward. The leaders mentioned something that was very strange to me, ordinarily I would let it go without comment but I’ve read a few experiences from other people in different wards/stakes that mesh with my experience. I’m wondering whether this is a thing or whether a few leaders independently mapped the new focus on the Sabbath with the current problem of many members losing faith. In our meeting a good portion of the discussion centered around how focusing on the Sabbath would help people experiencing a faith crisis. First I was surprised that they spent so much time talking about people leaving in our stake and how it was a point of much discussion and concern among the leaders. You never hear that. I guess it’s been an invisible problem for a while now?
Second I don’t really think that doubling down on Sabbath observance with a person experiencing a faith crisis is the best of plans. To me it’s an extension of the advice to read scriptures and pray that ring so hollow for many that are in the throes of a crisis.
Was this a part of the training or am I in one of the areas where some dots were connected?
I was hoping people would get to have some input on how to improve Sabbath worship but our 5th Sunday turned out to be another lecture.
It was one of those Sundays where I come away feeling completely drained.
:sick: Nibbler – I am with you. And if Sabbath Day isn’t helping get the disaffected back, it’s job is to get the nation back on track. That was the direction ours headed today. If I’d been drinking something I would sprayed everyone. As I listened all I could think of was – We’re playing pinata and this isn’t a hit.
In my ward alone I know of 5 families in less than ideal circumstances. 4 women with inactive/disinterested spouses, and one with kids who all abandoned the church after they turned 18. Now I know our ward is bigger than those families, but seriously if the local and larger leadership knows we are losing people why not seek out why people are going and find a way to address that. Even something as simple as “We are just going to be like Jesus.”
If the 5 attending, practicing ward members keep wearing their Sunday clothes, sitting at home and reading scriptures do they really think the lost sheep in their lives will one day look back and go “Hey, I miss being Mormon. I want to come back.” I don’t think so.
I am counting it a loss. And it hurts. To me the answer isn’t hard to find, it can easily be connected to Joseph Smith, the restoration, BofM, and Temple Work and make room for others. Jesus Christ. That simple.
As with so many things, much depends on the local leadership – and units with general, broad issues and lack of understanding probably will fumble this one, as well. Aside from that, everyone here has mentioned at some point some degree of frustration over aspects of our Sunday services, especially the spiritual quality of Sacrament Meeting. I love the focus – but, again, the implementation will vary greatly from place to place.
I FAR prefer a message about having better, more spiritual meetings and keeping the Sabbath Day holy to SO many other things that could be a major focus – and I know of wards and branches where it is being approached well.
Ray – I agree with what you say, I know that how my Bishop see’s this comes from my Stake Leaders more than anything, I also believe just like with LGBT issues that some wards and stakes, DJ’s for example, are trying to be more Savior centered. My problem is The Leadership at the top could have just said that in a nutshell, the thumb drive selections don’t show a more open option, and they do reference retention and saving. One thing that I took for myself from it, was This Too Shall Pass. Just sit down and let it roll by. And if someone has an issue, send them home with the President Uchtdorf talk “Stop It.”
Last comment then I will stop or blow up. I think the part the torqued me the most was the insinuative comment that Keeping the Sabbath holy was going to retain and return lost sheep to the fold. The unspoken but heard message is – those guys “the lost” ones are our fault. How is the mother whose child has left the church supposed to feel? I guess she didn’t keep the Sabbath enough. Or do FHE enough, or go to the temple enough.
I don’t mind and even value teaching the importance of being Sabbath centered or such, but laying it as the be all end all for retention and such is horrid. IMHO. It’s trammel-ling in the worst way.
nibbler wrote:In our meeting a good portion of the discussion centered around how focusing on the Sabbath would help people experiencing a faith crisis. First I was surprised that they spent so much time talking about people leaving in our stake and how it was a point of much discussion and concern among the leaders. You never hear that. I guess it’s been an invisible problem for a while now?
In our stake training the idea that the Brethren believe keeping the Sabbath will improve the overall well being of the church and the membership was discussed, not specifically anything about faith crises. I don’t recall the exact wording, but it was clear from the video clips the top leadership firmly believes this. Like Ray says, I am all for improving our Sabbath worship, especially church services. Our SP came right out and said in the training that we don’t do as well as other churches in teaching and preaching the Savior. I have said this for many years. If we do better at just that I will be happy. I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I don’t see it happening. Because of tradition, leadership roulette, and just plain laziness I don’t see this changing anything. However, I will continue to do my part.
nibbler wrote:Second I don’t really think that doubling down on Sabbath observance with a person experiencing a faith crisis is the best of plans. To me it’s an extension of the advice to read scriptures and pray that ring so hollow for many that are in the throes of a crisis.
Agreed.
nibbler wrote:I was hoping people would get to have some input on how to improve Sabbath worship but our 5th Sunday turned out to be another lecture.
It was one of those Sundays where I come away feeling completely drained.
:sick: (Our fifth Sunday was about the importance of doing our family history – again.
:crazy: 🙄 Today was an endure day as opposed to an enjoy day. I won’t even get into SM, although one talk was Christ centered. I did manage to beat both boys – 19 & 17 – at Risk though, so I am the king of the world!)I am speaking on the subject next month. I intend to focus on the church part – the importance of every talk being Christ centered, the reason for being there at all is to partake of the sacrament, etc. If I say anything about the outside church part it will have to do with deciding for yourself what is worshipful – like other things it’s between you and God (and it’s not a TR question). My address is to just one ward (my home ward as it turns out), and they can surely use it. Any input or ideas you all have to offer are as always appreciated. I will note that in my research I discovered this is not the only time President/Elder Nelson has spoken on the subject, and mentions it relatively frequently. Elder Oaks also gave a humdinger of a talk on the subject (most of which I won’t actually quote, but there are some good sacrament tidbits). nibbler, our stake has talked about it as a way to refocus and commit to being at church, although our bishop is out about every 3rd week because his family has a cabin and boat on the lake, so they use it during the summer. So he only goes so far. If I was sitting in that meeting and hearing it, I think my approach would simply be that what they are saying is off-base. Has nothing to do with my faith transition and the questions I was dealing with. After years of studying and praying and figuring things out for me, yes…my ideas on Sabbath day have changed. A person could then see that change in me and point and say, “Yes…Sabbath Day orthodoxy would save his changing beliefs”…but that is from their perspective of looking at one thing about me and projecting backwards on what they think is the problem and solution…when really, they have no idea what I’ve gone through.
So…as Ray was pointing out, it is leadership roulette and it is something leaders are taking a stab in the dark about something they don’t understand in my situation. So i take it as that. Doesn’t apply to me. Maybe others need to hear that message, but not me, and if they cared to ask my opinion, I would simply tell them they are way off base. Sorry…no points for trying.
My kind bishop before I moved understood me and what I went through. He would have encouraged me to adhere to strict Sabbath day devotion…but…he would also know that had nothing to do with my situation. So … he was kind and loving and told me that his opinion was that I would be blessed for keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as it is taught traditionally (no stores, be at church, etc), but he would also know that I was doing OK with the direction I was going and in my own time and in my own way, I was working through my life situation. While he may have delivered the same lesson over the pulpit about sabbath day adherence strengthening our families in the ward…he would have privately told me not to stress about it, he understands the path I am on.
That is why I loved and respected him. He knew my personal situation. He knew that in general the teachings of the church were not wrong, but that some personal adaptation was understandable.
When I don’t feel leaders understand my personal situation, I generally let it go. I think they will figure out in time that their speeches will not bear fruit…and in time it will go away or it will be adapted to better meet the members’ needs spiritually.
I give leaders time and margin for error to figure things out. I simply know those messages about the Sabbath do not apply to me. Even if from their perspective they are sure as nails that they do. That is their perspective. I like hearing it, even if I discard it.
As I said earlier in this thread…currently where I’m at with my family…Sunday is a free for all. I am able to choose good things. If one week we are in church and the next week camping and fishing…I am happy with the results we are getting by staying close to my kids and supporting them in what they need right now in life. The results are so far are that 1 married daughter in the temple is active, 1 daugther at BYU Idaho uber orthodox and active, 2 sons honoring their priesthood and want to serve missions and hold leadership callings in their quorums. Sabbath Day adherence is not what is keeping our family in the church, nor is what is changing my opinions on the Book of Abraham (for example). Personal study and FHE and good family experiences are reinforcing how good my family feels about the gospel. Love is always a better motivator than fear.
The comparison to me is as if someone told me that eating yogurt prevents cancer, because I eat yogurt every day and I don’t have cancer. Therefore, if you eat yogurt, you won’t get cancer.
It is simply not related. And pressing families to be more diligent on Sabbath Day is a decent thing, like yogurt is healthy too. But it won’t prevent a faith crisis or cancer.
For me, the Sabbath Day commandment is there to make sure people don’t take on responsibilities that prevent them from going to church, and all other Sabbath day rules are an appendage to it. To Quote Hawkgrrl — get off my lawn people!!1 (not directed at anyone in this thread, just a general shout-out).
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