Sunday, lists, and delight

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

For me, the Sabbath Day commandment is there to make sure people don’t take on responsibilities that prevent them from going to church, and all other Sabbath day rules are an appendage to it.

SD, why do you think leaders care about this? Where are they coming from to focus on this as opposed to other teachings?

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

For me, the Sabbath Day commandment is there to make sure people don’t take on responsibilities that prevent them from going to church, and all other Sabbath day rules are an appendage to it.

I agree that many of the traditional keep the Sabbath “rules” are aimed at keeping people active in the church. Some of the rules are rather explicit in stating that purpose, others are ancillary: genealogy, HT/VT, all the other non-3 hour block meetings that earn you extra credit ( 😆 ), etc.

Heber13 wrote:

SD, why do you think leaders care about this? Where are they coming from to focus on this as opposed to other teachings?

I can’t answer for SD but I get the impression that church leaders genuinely feel like these things are what it takes to make it in this life, else why bother? It’s the yogurt that has worked for them over the years. I show up and ask “what’s with all this yogurt that I’ve heard so much about?” Someone hands me a container, I take a bite and :sick: it’s Greek yogurt. :sick: You knew it was Greek yogurt when you handed it to me, why would you do that to someone?

[Anonymous]

I think most leaders truly, deeply believe attending church is important and that it is part of keeping the Sabbath Day holy. Attending church also is THE central aspect of having a church in the first place.

I don’t think they have ulterior motives with this one, even though I agree that not taking on responsibilities that would keep you from church is a part of the overall thinking.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Ray. A large portion of the first part of the training (the Sabbath at church) focused on the sacrament and on Christ centered worship. I think the video selections made it clear what the Brethren are looking for in this respect.

A couple weeks back there were some visitors in our ward. They were clearly vacationing and were dressed as vacationers. I didn’t actually meet them – they left immediately after the sacrament. Not sacrament meeting, the sacrament itself. I thought to myself, “They get it.” They did their thing (taking the sacrament) and went about their business. It’s not talk meeting or hymn meeting or prayer meeting – it’s sacrament meeting.

I had a thought recently that SM would be fine with me if it were a half hour – do the sacrament and have a short inspirational Christ centered message similar to what one might here on Music and the Spoken Word. Reduce the time for SS and RS/PH and you have yourself a two hour block.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I had a thought recently that SM would be fine with me if it were a half hour – do the sacrament and have a short inspirational Christ centered message similar to what one might here on Music and the Spoken Word. Reduce the time for SS and RS/PH and you have yourself a two hour block.

A man can dream… and I think we had the same dream.

I don’t often comment in church but I wanted to use the opportunity during the discussion that was to take place during the 5th Sunday combined hour to gently remind everyone that the training also mentioned that we should focus our meetings on Christ. There was no discussion so that plan fell through.

I believe the takeaway from the training in our area was that Sabbath observance can both rescue the inactive and protect the saints. I think we may have missed the message to focus more on Christ. If we were to do more of that I feel like all of these secondary goals that we preoccupy ourselves with would naturally fall into place. I guess I’m just impatient, I need a SM talk on Christ, we’re currently in a drought in my area.

Since we weren’t given the opportunity to discuss things as a ward during 5th Sunday I’m wondering if I should reach out to one of our leaders to chat about things, in a nice way of course.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

I don’t often comment in church but I wanted to use the opportunity during the discussion that was to take place during the 5th Sunday combined hour to gently remind everyone that the training also mentioned that we should focus our meetings on Christ. There was no discussion so that plan fell through.

In SM in my ward there were 3 talks on the subject of reverence. I was frustrated that there was so much that reinforced the idea that to be reverent is to sit quietly (I privately would like to have some sort of reference that the clapping, joyous noise, worshiping of some other congregations can also be considered reverent). Other than that the message seemed to be that to be more reverent was to be a better Mormon. Two of the three talks gave similar lists. Reverent people pay tithing, dress modestly, obey the WoW, are selective in the types of books, movies, and media they consume, do not swear or tell off color jokes, fulfill their home teaching, magnify their callings, do genealogy work. It makes it sound impossible for non-Mormons to be reverent.

There was a story told of a major conference in a sports arena with significant commotion (the example given was of whispering to an adjacent family member). That was juxtaposed with a similar conference in another country with a “hush” over the audience. When the visiting GA speakers asked the local leaders how they accomplished this the answer was that each man was assigned to instruct his family and his HT families to sit as though Jesus himself were speaking to them.

This apparently led into the combined 5th Sunday lesson.

My wife reported that we need to arrive 5 min. early and sit quietly in the chapel to prepare for the spirit of the meeting. This is not the time to chat or catch up with friends. If members of the bishopric are seated on the stand prior to the meeting this is not the time to deliver tithing envelopes to them as this can be disruptive to their quiet, contemplative, and preparative time. There was also some discussion about how to assist the mothers with young children (I appreciate that there is a recognition that young mothers may be strapped as far as they can reach as far as promoting “reverence”).

This made my wife feel guilty because we are frequently shuffling into the back pews a few minutes after the hour.

To be fair, I think I can connect the dots in their thinking. To keep the Sabbath more fully we need to improve the reverence in our meetings. To improve the reverence in our meeting we need all the members to show up early, stop talking, quietly sit down, and listen intently.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like they may have conflated “reverence” with “exact obedience.”

I guess I’m different. Imagine if someone came up to the podium and said, “We’d like to recognize the presence of Jesus, he will be presiding over our meeting this morning and will be our concluding speaker.” I imagine pure bedlam, not pin drop silence.

We seem to be sacrificing our sense of community at the expense of implementing a rigid interpretation of reverence. It’s a shame.

[Anonymous]

its nice to worship the rules and all, but the rules don’t care about you.

[Anonymous]

To answer heber13’s question…I think first and foremost it is to make sure people are available to connect with everyone on Sunday when all the action happens. Most callings are on Sunday or have a strong Sunday component. So, being available on Sunday is critical for the success of the organization. I believe that is the primary reason. A second reason is that Sunday church is where people get trained in the gospel and the church. Leaders want people there to further and perpetuate the gospel and culture. It is there that the organization building tends to happen.

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