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http://www.millennialmormons.com/your-choice-supporting-gay-marriage-or-supporting-gay-members/ An interesting perspective. What do you think?
I respect it; I understand it; I agree with it for those who see it that way; I don’t agree with it for everyone, especially as a legal matter. [Admin Note]: This will NOT turn into an argument or a divisive thread. There is a good discussion to be had. Let’s make it so. The above video about Gay Marriage Ettiqute was too good not to share.
Ray, if I have overstepped the bounds of appropriateness, please just take it down.
I know this is a bad analogy, but as I read I can’t help but hear an “alcoholic” that is complaining about having friends that support ending prohibition. I wish it was easier to make obvious the difference that can exist between political positions and personal/religious beliefs. DaddyB: I understand the point you make.
As the LDS gay who is feeling left out of the lovefest supporting SSM, it must feel especially isolating.
It must feel much like going to a baby shower for an unwed mother when you yourself are dealing with infertility, miscarriage, or death of a child. Each congratulations one hears in that situation just feels like another knife into the soul. The baby shower is all about of hope and celebration. You want SO MUCH to be part of that celebration .. But you are not .. You are celebrating for someone else who made choices that our church’ frowns on. It is very easy to get caught up in, “I am more worthy” and ” I have kept the commandments” and “why are they celebrating something that is viewed as a sin”
Sometimes, we just need to be happy for others and their journey. Most Happily Ever Afters are rarely as good as they appear from the distance. Every life journey includes horrible pain, difficulties, and unbelievable obstacles to deal with and manage. We still wish people well on their journeys. Sometimes, that is all we can do.
As we yell Bon Voyage to SSM couples and wish them well, it doesn’t detract from you or your journey. Like the story of the prodigal son, we can find joy in both sons .. For vastly different reasons.
Hang in there.
amateurparent wrote:DaddyB:
I understand the point you make.
As the LDS gay who is feeling left out of the lovefest supporting SSM, it must feel especially isolating.
It must feel much like going to a baby shower for an unwed mother when you yourself are dealing with infertility, miscarriage, or death of a child. Each congratulations one hears in that situation just feels like another knife into the soul. The baby shower is all about of hope and celebration. You want SO MUCH to be part of that celebration .. But you are not .. You are celebrating for someone else who made choices that our church’ frowns on. It is very easy to get caught up in, “I am more worthy” and ” I have kept the commandments” and “why are they celebrating something that is viewed as a sin”
Sometimes, we just need to be happy for others and their journey. Most Happily Ever Afters are rarely as good as they appear from the distance. Every life journey includes horrible pain, difficulties, and unbelievable obstacles to deal with and manage. We still wish people well on their journeys. Sometimes, that is all we can do.
As we yell Bon Voyage to SSM couples and wish them well, it doesn’t detract from you or your journey. Like the story of the prodigal son, we can find joy in both sons .. For vastly different reasons.
Hang in there.
Just to clarify, this post is not about me. I was just wondering what your thoughts were about the article I linked to by Joshua Butler.DaddyB: When I read the article, I jumped to the assumption that you were dealing with Staying LDS and SSA.
Sounds like you were posting the article simply for discussion.
Sorry .. I’m hanging my head in shame now.
Thanks for posting this. It has me thinking. I like that the internet can give a voice to
everyonein a maelstrom like this, but it still takes courage to speak out. I’m also thinking about grown children of gay parents who are talking now about their negative opinion of being raised without a mother and father. Ann wrote – Quote:
I like that the internet can give a voice to everyone in a maelstrom like this, but it still takes courage to speak out. I’m also thinking about grown children of gay parents who are talking now about their negative opinion of being raised without a mother and father.For me this is where love wins or tries to win.
This week this has been my biggest struggle – loving all the diverse lives and opinions that have been effected by the present events. I am still answer free on the how, but I am trying.
Orson wrote:I know this is a bad analogy, but as I read I can’t help but hear an “alcoholic” that is complaining about having friends that support ending prohibition. I wish it was easier to make obvious the difference that can exist between political positions and personal/religious beliefs.
I felt the same.
In my conversations with DW (who is against the recent ruling), she fears people (especially youth) experimenting with homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. Some of these people could live decent heterosexual lives if that was the only option available. OTOH, In our conversation we have agreed that there are some people that would not be able to make the cut in a heterosexual only world. She feels badly for them but sees it as the lesser of two evils (the other evil being widespread homosexual/bisexual experimentation by youth) .
I understand and sympathize with this position. I want people and especially youth to have moral standards. I just feel that everything changes when it comes to my child. If my child came out as gay I would be terrified for the additional challenges that would await this child as they grew. However ratcheting up the consequences of not following church protocol on the subject would not seem to help. If it were my child I feel that I would need to stand by my child’s decisions. I am aware that children especially are still growing and changing and may still be evolving physiologically. Yet how could I discount my child’s feelings with a “one day you’ll understand” or “one day you’ll thank me”? I cannot imagine any course of action but to believe and trust that my child knows what is going on the inside of him or her. I would counsel against making sudden or permanent decisions but ultimately I need to be a supporter and advocate for my child in whatever life path my child takes.
Quote:Faithful LGBT members of the Church need Christ-like love and acceptance too. We need members who flood social media with reminders of the blessings of temples and the promise of eternal families. We need members who mourn with us, as we mourn the increasing enticement that would draw us away from our covenants, and who comfort us with the assurances of God’s promises to the faithful. We need members who show us by example the joy of celestial marriage and family by welcoming us into their hearts and homes.
I am somewhat curious as to what is meant by the above section. What are “the blessings of temples and the promise of eternal families” as the might apply to the TBM LGBT member? Does the author mean attending the temple as a single person for endowments and initiatory? Do they mean that in certain situations gay people could enter into heterosexual marriages/sealings in order to claim the “joy of celestial marriage and family”? Do they mean that gay people benefit from coming from an eternal family/parentage and should be reminded/consoled in that fact? Do they mean that gay latter day saints that endure to the end will have their gay tendencies taken away in the next life and will be blessed for their steadfastness with an eternal heterosexual union?
Taking the full article in context I believe it is the later – that lifelong celibacy may be the price that some must pay for a posthumous eternal family.
So, if I’m reading this right, the person is saying that they plan to live a celibate life, but if gay marriage is legal, then that might be too much temptation, and they might get married. If marriage was not legal, they would never think of hooking up with same sex partner. But now all their LDS friends are happy about gay marriage, they might succumb? I see it as a plea to allow them to live a very difficult life they choose because of their religious beliefs without extra temptation to do otherwise. As I said, I respect that for people who want that. It is their choice, if I can use that word as non-ironically as possible.
I don’t want that. I prefer a full condition of agency, which exists only in the context of multiple choices – including what various people would classify as temptations.
In other words, no temptation, no ability to choose, no growth, no progression, return in same condition as when we left, Lucifer’s plan accomplished.
Old-Timer wrote:I prefer a full condition of agency, which exists only in the context of multiple choices – including what various people would classify as temptations.
In other words, no temptation, no ability to choose, no growth, no progression, return in same condition as when we left, Lucifer’s plan accomplished.
Exactly! Ray and I agree on something!!!
I think I can understand his position, as I was right where he is about twenty years ago. I was undergoing reparative therapy (by my own choice) and there was talk of outlawing such therapy. I felt very much attacked–I really believed that God would change me, and that I should have access to such therapy if I wanted it. Now I’m thrilled that reparative therapy is being made illegal for underaged folks. It doesn’t work. It offers false hope and promises. I would be a much healthier person if I had accepted myself back then.
I think his post gets to one of the big problems with all of this hullabaloo–people feel that lines must be drawn, and that standing for your particular position on SSM is more important than the many people who are caught in between–especially LGBT Mormons. I wish there were more of a concern for the people who are really affected by all of this.
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