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My wife, who is pretty TBM, keeps coming at me with online posts that seem to suggest multiple GA’s in different contexts have alluded to bigger than average changes supposedly coming next Conference — even compared to last session. There is speculation, but here are a few on her short list… 1. 2 hour block.
2. Separation of civil and temple marriage in North America.
3. Change of Name for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir
4. Deletion of PEC meeting.
5. Expanded leadership opportunities for women
Changing the name of MoTab is daft… name recognition…. 2 – can’t see it.
1 – Maybe but this is rumour.
I think the rumors are a reflection of a few things. 1) Members are starved for change. Church maintained the status quo for a very long time, right down to keeping the same Sunday School manuals and the same format for PH/RS for nearly 20 years. Church became rote and boring.
2) Last conference showed people that the church can change, even if it’s a simple palette swap.
Now there’s an environment of anticipation that there could be changes to things that members have been waiting decades to see.
– – – – –
Taking the rumors one at a time:
1) 2 hour block – I can fully understand why members have willed this rumor into existence. If not true there will be lots of disappointed people.
I’ve also heard rumors that Elder Bednar squashed this rumor. Rumors on top of rumors! Interesting that people picked Bednar to be the deliverer of “bad” news.
Time will tell. Until then, keep attending as much church as you need. You don’t have to wait for permission.
2) Separation of civil and temple marriage in North America – I know they already do this in some countries but if they did it in North America they would probably go ahead and do this church-wide.
Speculation: Fears of being compelled to perform gay marriages (not just in the USA). If they get out ahead of things they can put themselves in a position where marriages and sealings are discrete events. A bishop could perform a gay marriage to comply with whatever law but not be in the position to be obligated to perform gay sealings. I’ll shoot a hole through that… we’re already performing marriages that are separate from sealings.
This one feels like a variant to the long time rumor of removing the 1 year penalty. I feels like I hear that rumor every March/September.
3) Change of Name for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir – maybe, but I agree with Sam, name recognition. It feels more like a retelling of the joke that circulated shortly after the presser where we got our Gs in a twist over being called Mormons.
4) Deletion of PEC meeting – didn’t they already do that?
5) Expanded leadership opportunities for women – boy, I hope so. Sunday School presidencies. Ward clerks. You name it.
– – – – –
Adding to the pile of other rumors I’ve heard:
6) Giving youth the option to serve a proselyting mission or a service mission and allowing them to determine how long their mission will last; 6 months, 1 year, 18 months, 2 years, etc.
7) You better make sure your testimony is in order because you’re about to be tested. I don’t take this one seriously at all. It’s just human nature poking through.
An extension to #7. Many will apostatize because of what will be said, they will be hitting the theme of follow the prophet, choose you this day whom ye will serve, because whatever is said will test you. Aside from hitting the theme of follow the prophet real hard (it is general conference after all 
All rumors are meant to build up hype to get people to burn an entire weekend watching meetings. It’s hard to motivate members to do that, but if there’s a hint of meat being thrown in the water (something,
anythingdifferent, please, please, PLEASE, I’m so bored) then more people will tune in. Nelson has been rolling out the revelations pretty quickly. He seems to be taking the role of “prophet” very seriously and literally. It could be a good thing, but no matter what happens I’m sure it’s bound to be pretty different. Changing MoTab to TCOJCOL-DSTab, doesn’t seem reasonable. Seriously, typing that out was painful! I have no doubt Nelson is going to bring up the name of the Church in GC, but I hope he doesn’t double down and try to change the choir’s name.
Everything else seems very reasonable. I wouldn’t be surprised, if women get officially extended the priesthood this conference. My guess is it’ll take less than 5 years tops. I still don’t think they’ll have lady-bishops for a while, because… keys and traditions and stuff. But I can’t see #2 happening. It’s too… irrelevant to most of the membership, and the temple is too important.
All of these possible changes seem reasonable to me. PEC is pretty redundant now that we have Ward Council as the main decision-making body. Changing the name of MoTab is reasonable given the emphasis on not calling ourselves Mormons. Expanded leadership for women — possible into areas that aren’t considered hard core priesthood responsibilities (no offence meant by that statement — I’m taking the perspective of an orthodox GA). The separation of marriages seems prudent given all the emphasis on gay marriage. Plus it’s just plain WRONG to disadvantage people with non-mem family that way — particularly when it’s done in other places around the world. My wife indicated that the 2 hour block is being tested in places already — people on social media are saying it’s happening in their wards.
There could be new missions opened up as well.
Who knows, it’s rumour and speculation. I wondered if I should even bother to post this thread since rumor is supposed to be a bad thing.
But I agree with Nibbler — people are STARVED for change. I know I am. I want a kinder, gentler church that seems to care as much about its members as it does itself (it’s coffers, it’s own organizational interests, saving face). And I’m just sick of how boring and the same it is all the time!!
The new changes to EQ have really helped mix it up.
The prophet is in his 90’s so I have wondered if he’s really interested in making some rapid changes so he doesn’t pass on without having had an impact, kind of like Howard W Hunter did.
nibbler wrote:
An extension to #7. Many will apostatize because of what will be said, they will be hitting the theme of follow the prophet, choose you this day whom ye will serve, because whatever is said will test you. Aside from hitting the theme of follow the prophet real hard (it is general conference after all I don’t see this happening on a large scale. The church is VERY protective of its membership. They like to see the membership numbers growth rate increasing just like large companies like to see their stock price growing. I don’t think there will ever be policies meant to purge us, although I do think we have seen some people leave voluntarily over the November policy. If there are massive exodii, it would be a result of the leaders being out of touch with the membership.
If it was intentional, and announced that way, it would be evidence this whole thing is more true than I figured. Organizational interests drive the bus in our religion. If you accept the premise that no one really knows when the second coming will happen, I can’t see leaders enacting policies that would cause major bloodletting. No way.
I was just talking to my son who lives in Utah the other day and he mentioned the “last conference was a snowflake in the blizzard” idea he’d heard. However, he didn’t have any speculations except the block thing which has says comes around every conference lately. I’d love a two hour block and see multiple ways it could happen, some of which include shortening SM. Eliminating or reducing SS is another way to shorten things, and it appears there is an as yet unknown reason new curricula are not going to be released until after GC – so there is a possibility there. The YSA branch in my stake goes to bare bones in the summer when the kids go home from our major university. With approval from on high they have only met for two hours during the summer months for the last two years. They alternate PH/RS and SS second hour.
I’d also love the separation of civil marriage and sealing. I think the church may eventually get out of the marriage business completely, and only do sealings. That protects the church from ever being forced to do gay marriage, even though I believe churches being forced to do gay marriages is a red herring in the “religious freedom” issue.
Don’t care about the name of the choir. They probably should have changed the name long ago.
PEC was formally done away with last conference, in practice some places did away with it or greatly reduced it months or even years ago.
I’d love to see expanded leadership roles for women, but unless they’re willing to slay some sacred cows (no pun intended) I don’t see where or how. Perhaps allowing women in SS presidencies or as WML?
I’d also love having options as far as missions, including time options similar to how it’s already done with senior couples. I’d also like to see loosening of the archaic and Machiavellian rules.
My brother in law who lives about 1 mile from Temple Square said the same thing: lots of changes coming. He also told me that 2 years ago. Unfortunately count me among the doubting. There may be one or two things that improve on the margins, but with the whole name change thing a few weeks ago, that’s the sort of changes I expect to be announced.
I would
loveto be wrong. SilentDawning wrote:
If it was intentional, and announced that way, it would be evidence this whole thing is more true than I figured. Organizational interests drive the bus in our religion. If you accept the premise that no one really knows when the second coming will happen, I can’t see leaders enacting policies that would cause major bloodletting. No way.
You reminded me of yet another rumor I’ve seen. That this conference will focus a lot on the Second Coming. Happening soon, mark it on your calendars, sort of rumors.
File that one with the others that I don’t see happening. That’s when red flags should go up, when your leader (who hasn’t read the NT at all?) circles a date on the calendar.
1. 2 hour block – Back in the 70’s, when the 12th President of the Church was in office (SWK), the world seemed on the brink of WWIII and the Year 2000 was in the not-too-distant future, we pretty much expected Jesus to return within our lifetimes. The question now is: which will come first, the Second Coming or the ending Church after the Second Hour? 2. Separation of civil and temple marriage in North America – It would be in keeping with some recent global standardization efforts.
3. Change of Name for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir – I think this is the least needed and the most likely change to happen. I suspect the new name will be “The Tabernacle Choir”.
4. Deletion of PEC meeting – I haven’t been in one for so long, I didn’t realize that we still did them.
5. Expanded leadership opportunities for women – yes please. I hope for a day when either gender can be called to the majority of positions. Obvious priesthood positions, of course, can’t be changed. In today’s world, the Bishop needs to be a man. There are only four positions in each ward that are tied to Priesthood Keys: Bishop, EQP, TQP, DQP. All others could, in theory, be women. Radical me, but I would even say counselor in the Bishopric could be a woman. Of course, if we are going to continue to have YM/YW organizations, you would expect them to be gender-based. Primary Prez? SSP? WML? WClerk? ExecSec? Just having some callings that can be either or, rather than the current men-only and women-only callings would be a big step forward.
People like to speculate. I don’t, since it too often leads to disappointment. If changes happen, great; I can celebrate the unexpected. If not, okay; I won’t be disappointed. Lowered expectations can be a good thing, even if they are frustrating when I step back and allow myself to dream.
Old Timer wrote:
People like to speculate. I don’t, since it too often leads to disappointment. If changes happen, great; I can celebrate the unexpected. If not, okay; I won’t be disappointed.Lowered expectations can be a good thing, even if they are frustrating when I step back and allow myself to dream.
It reminds me of the Saturday Night Live skit on low expectations. How they are the key to a happy life. With low expectations:
1. Your spouse looks good.
2. Your job looks good.
3. Your church looks good.
4. Your income looks good.
I am on the #3 plan now.
As far as speculation goes, I think it’s often an expression of hope, something that keeps people alive. Sure there is disappointment, but the hope during the speculation period can be sustaining for a while.
SilentDawning wrote:
nibbler wrote:
An extension to #7. Many will apostatize because of what will be said, they will be hitting the theme of follow the prophet, choose you this day whom ye will serve, because whatever is said will test you. Aside from hitting the theme of follow the prophet real hard (it is general conference after all ) I don’t see this happening. I don’t see this happening on a large scale. The church is VERY protective of its membership. They like to see the membership numbers growth rate increasing
just like large companies like to see their stock price growing. I don’t think there will ever be policies meant to purge us, although I do think we have seen some people leave voluntarily over the November policy. If there are massive exodii, it would be a result of the leaders being out of touch with the membership. If it was intentional, and announced that way, it would be evidence this whole thing is more true than I figured. Organizational interests drive the bus in our religion. If you accept the premise that no one really knows when the second coming will happen,
I can’t see leaders enacting policies that would cause major bloodletting. No way.
It actually wouldn’t surprise me if Nelson rolled out some new policy changes and/or “revelations” that would be especially hard for many Church members to accept. Just look at what he has already done so far. This is the same guy that publicly doubled down on the November policy, abandoned scouts, combined the high priests and Elders quorums, changed home/visiting teaching to “ministering” and publicly discouraged the use of Mormon and LDS after the recent “I’m a Mormon” advertising campaign and so many Church websites already used these terms.
Basically it looks like if Nelson thinks something is a good idea for whatever reasons then he is typically going to just go ahead and do it without worrying much if at all about how many members will react to it, all the implications and possible unintended side effects of it, etc. To me there is no question Nelson is capable of making major negative or difficult changes and the more interesting question is what kind of changes could be seriously under consideration that could actually cause very many Church members to leave? As far as the two hour block rumor I think it has gotten to the point where now many Church members will be disappointed if it doesn’t happen.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:
As far as the two hour block rumor I think it has gotten to the point where now many Church members will be disappointed if it doesn’t happen.
My wife brought up the two hour block rumors yesterday. She said, “I don’t see how it could possibly work. I mean, the first half hour of relief society is taken up just by announcements!”
dande48 wrote:
My wife brought up the two hour block rumors yesterday. She said, “I don’t see how it could possibly work. I mean, the first half hour of relief society is taken up just by announcements!”
That’s a regular PH opening exercises thing too. But…
1) Most of the announcements were made during SM. I guess it helps with the people that missed them because they came in late, but I’ve got to think that there are far fewer people to hear announcements during the 3rd hour (went home or are in primary or YM/YW) so I’ve got to question whether we need to be using 30 minutes of our meetings making announcements. 30 minutes during the 3rd hour is probably a slight exaggeration but I bet we do spend 30 minutes on announcements when adding the time we take during SM and during PH/RS.
2) Sometimes I get the feeling that we stretch the announcements portion of the meeting out to purposely leave less time for the lesson. At least in PH. I bet if church went to 2 hours we’d find a way to shorten the announcements. We’d be forced into a situation where we’d have to be more efficient with our time as opposed to the current model of, “Junk. How am I going to fill all this time? I know, announcements!”
3) A lot of time is spent on announcements that are always the same. Does the EQP have any announcements? Of course he does. He’s going to get up and remind people to do their ministering teaching. Yup, there he goes. Does the deacon’s quorum president have any announcements? Nope, says he hasn’t got anything. No wait, the young men’s president reminded him of the camp out they had. Turns out the camp out was “good.” Does anyone else have any announcements? Going once… going twice… no. Now we’ll run out the rest of the clock reading from a talk.
:angel: Sorry for the jaded comments. They are made in jest. My only point is that there’s lots of fat that could be trimmed. Lots. I think because on any given Sunday we’ve got maybe 30 minutes of material that we have to pad out into 180 minutes… because church has gotta be 180 minutes.
So this post isn’t just me complaining, here’s another rumor that I’ll start.
Relaxing WoW requirements. I got to thinking (dangerous), during the mission years I taught a lot of people that would have been baptized if not for a coffee or smoking habit. I wonder whether the church would relax WoW requirements (even if only in order to be baptized, you’d still have to comply for the temple) so they could experience a greater influx of converts.
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