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Heres an idea for a thread of discussion. “Taking someone elses word for it” Why do I ….. why would I listen to another person and do or not do something based on their experience of it? …. or rather, in most cases what they heard about the experience from another, from another, from another…. all the way back to Moses, or Chris Carmichael, or who ever. I feel that life about experiencing. I feel that one of lifes many joys is experiencing the birth of my first child, my first century bike ride, my first kiss, my first summit up Mt Adams, my first Dr Pepper, my first beer, my first cigarette, my first sunflower seed, my relationships with others, my relationship with myself, etc………….
Notice the feelings you had reading that last paragraph…. yup, yup, yup I agree… then nope!… then yup, yup, yup….. why is that? Have you tried it? Why or why not? Because someone else said so…..
What if I had listened to someone else and not had Kyson (because its a dangerous world), and not ridden my bike (because I could get hit by a car), not kissed Christina (because kissing is where babys come from), or not tasted the sweet prune juice taste of Dr Pepper (because it has caffeine in it), not tasted beer (and learned how it tasted to me), not asked Jared to do the OIE century ride with me the next day (because I had just met him and he looked funny), etc, etc, etc…
I know that some are really into reading AP journals… and so much of what he has learned has come from the experience of others. But where does it stop… when does it stop….? The more I look at it, the more I feel that taking others word for it ( as the Law, the rules by which I live ) creates a box for me to live in…. rather than an open sky to fly in…. to experience…. Life! All that I choose… All that I am drawn to…. All of it… not just the 5% my mom, friends, wife, church leaders, teachers, boss, grandpa, and police man think I should live….
I agree completely – in general. However, having said that . . . There are some things that I don’t want to experience and am fine “taking someone else’s word for it”.
For example, I think I know myself well enough to avoid beer and cigarettes because of their addictive qualities and my tendency toward addictive behavior. My family is multi-generational Mormon, so I don’t have a lineage I can look at and see if alcoholism runs in our genes – but I’m VERY wary, given what I do know about the disabilities that do manifest in my ancestry.
Granted, that’s not precisely “taking someone else’s word for it” at this point in my life, but it certainly was in my earlier, formative years – and I actually am very grateful for that, since it possibly kept me addiction-free until I could understand myself well enough to make that decision for myself in an informed, intelligent manner.
So, my summary:
Absolutely, I want to make my own choices and not rely strictly on someone else’s word on most things – but I also believe all of us accept the need for a reasonable, safe foundation of “someone else’s word for it” until we are mature enough to craft “our own word on it”.
Bigdraftrose wrote:Heres an idea for a thread of discussion. “Taking someone elses word for it” Why do I ….. why would I listen to another person and do or not do something based on their experience of it? …. or rather, in most cases what they heard about the experience from another, from another, from another…. all the way back to Moses, or Chris Carmichael, or who ever.
You sound like an explorer. Explorers love to go on adventures. I am more of a settler. I don’t want to travel much (to the chagrin of my wife). I see value in the experiences of others. In the past I had attempted to understand others experiences in the context of how it fit into my big picture (plan of salvation). I am now coming to appreciate that the life experiences of others are so varied and diverse that I cannot hope to analyze and categorize them. Life presents an incredible spectrum that is difficult to fathom. As I internalize this in practice, I hope to be more tolerant of others perspectives as their life experiences may not fit well with the same assumptions I live with. I also hope to be more inspired as I learn of others and their individual journeys. I find that their journeys add enrichment and vibrancy to my own.
But you may be asking why I am not out there living my own life to the fullest extent possible. I find meaning in my life primarily through the development of relationships. I thrive in surroundings of family and community; I am a settler after all. Sometimes explorers need to stop into a community for a pit stop to regroup and obtain provisions. Maybe you’ll stop by my community and you can tell me all about your adventures. Maybe I can laugh with you at the ridiculous parts and cry with you over the painful parts. I’ll do my best to help you shoulder your burdens, not just to help you -but because to do so builds relationships and that helps me too. That’s just what we do. Anyway, I’ll leave the light on for ya’
💡 Thank you Roy, and Ray for your replies…. I am going to love being in this group! I totally agree with using wisdom ( re: alcohol and cigarettes ) I was using that as an extreme example. The point I was driving at was the small, closed minded box that some LDS members build, or have built around them. From the age of 5 the LDS church did not make sense to me. How could my Heavenly Father love me… and then send me here to earth with 168 rules to follow or I’m going to hell? I’ve always felt, and am now verbally expressing and living, that my time on earth is to experience joy, heart ache, love, hate, gratitude, abundance, peace, oneness and on and on and on… Then to return to my Heavenly Father and have Him give me a big hug and ask, “How was Earth? Did you have a good time? Did you experience all that your heart desired? That’s wonderful! I Love You!” That is what my soul says, that is what my heart says… Sooo in the past, I have had a difficult time when other doctrines have been “the only truth” on the face of the earth? Many, many years of deep depression… Thinking I was wrong, unsightly, unworthy of His love…. But no longer! I now honor others for who and what they are…. But above all honor my feelings and my relationship with my soul, and my Heavenly Father.
I feel that He and I have a plan, and I have so much more to give, and to experience here on Earth…. Come with me Roy… The view is beautiful from the top of the mountain!
This is where I am at today… My heart to yours,
Jacob
Bigdraftrose wrote:Heres an idea for a thread of discussion. “Taking someone elses word for it” Why do I …..
why would I listen to another person and do or not do something based on their experience of it?…. or rather, in most cases what they heard about the experience from another, from another, from another…. all the way back to Moses…I know that some are really into reading AP journals… and so much of what he has learned has come from the experience of others. But where does it stop… when does it stop….? The more I look at it, the more I feel that taking others word for it ( as the Law, the rules by which I live ) creates a box for me to live in…. rather than an open sky to fly in…. to experience…. Life!… I don’t mind taking other people’s word for something as long as it makes sense to me. Why reinvent the wheel instead of learning what you can from others that have gone before? Sure the Church overdoes it with some of the unnecessary limitations they try to impose on people but I don’t believe that means it’s a good idea to go to the opposite extreme and break all the rules just to be a rebel. It seems like the hippies already tried that experiment and it didn’t work very well as a sustainable approach to life. If you can successfully blaze your own original trail then good for you but some people honestly prefer to play it safe rather than push their luck every chance they get.
When I was younger I used to try things, had little inhabition, ect. But as I have gotten older and more tired, sometimes the payoff isn’t worth it for me. This said I did take up white water rafting last year and it’s frakin’ great. I’ve drank beer (I don’t like alcohol of any kind, figured if it was an aquired taste I’d just not drink anymore), smoked cigerettes, and tried various things in my life. However, at this point if someone I trust tells me something I tend to listen, if they tell me jumping off a bridge on a bungee cord sucks…I’m going to go with it sucks and not try it. Of course I’m older and it takes more than a few hours to recover, more like days. :eh: 
:crazy: DevilsAdvocate, Where does it start, and when does it stop? If I had been told all of my life that Avacados taste like crap… and never taste one for myself… It just seems unfortunate to me, to take someone elses word for it, and to not have the experience myself. Especially with Costco chips and salsa.
Arwen mentioned bungee jumping…., go for it! I never have, but look forward to that experience when it presents itself in my life…. With open arms experience it… If you choose to never do it again, that’s fine. You dared to Live!
I find myself listening to the little voice in my head more and more… and less and less to others. I feel that many many people are carrying around way to much baggage…. Life so simple… My life is truly blessed when I follow the promptings of my soul / the Holy Ghost ( I feel ).
My heart to yours,
Jacob
Bigdraftrose wrote:DevilsAdvocate,
Where does it start, and when does it stop?If I had been told all of my life that Avacados taste like crap… and never taste one for myself… It just seems unfortunate to me, to take someone elses word for it, and to not have the experience myself.Especially with Costco chips and salsa…Arwen mentioned bungee jumping…., go for it! I never have, but look forward to that experience when it presents itself in my life…. With open arms experience it… If you choose to never do it again, that’s fine. You dared to Live!… I find myself listening to the little voice in my head more and more… and less and less to others. I feel that many many people are carrying around way to much baggage…. Life so simple… I’d say it starts with what is useful or worthwhile. If there is an existing process or set routine that produces adequate results then there is no need to question it until someone with more time to investigate it can clearly demonstrate a better way of doing things. It stops when there is a reasonable cause to doubt that some accepted standard is really necessary. In the case of the Church’s zero tolerance policy against alcohol, members can already look around and see many people drinking without any obvious problems which will often make them curious about what the big deal is to the point that they will eventually try it. Some of the members I know that have tried it didn’t like the taste or hangovers so they don’t feel like they are really missing out on anything but the ones that like it typically become inactive if they weren’t already. I already think the Church is wrong about this and many other things but it doesn’t mean I can’t trust anyone or listen to outside ideas anymore just because some of the things they say don’t really make sense.
Thank you for your feedback… I appreciate all of you for taking the time to reply to my first post. 🙂 Jacob
Bigdraftrose wrote:DevilsAdvocate,
Where does it start, and when does it stop? If I had been told all of my life that Avacados taste like crap…
Every time I hear someone use the phrase “tastes like crap” I wonder how they obtained a basis for comparison. Ewww.
(end derail)
Regarding life being experiential, I am mostly in agreement, but like others I also see wisdom in following sage advice. I’d don’t need to know what crashing into a telephone pole at 80 miles an hour feels like nor do I care to know the nauseating back and forth of sea sickness for weeks on end in the cargo hold of a slave ship. There are too many experiences, I’m just not interested in having. And I don’t need to be a genius to reject some outright without experimentation.
When I was younger, I chose to learn some hard lessons through experience rather than relying on the guidance of others. I won’t deny those experiences were life changing and increased my understanding and wisdom but that growth came at an exceptional cost. Certainly, there were lessons I could have learned no other way but I paid dearly for them.
So I don’t know that one learning style is innately better than the other. I think we each have to find our own way toward enlightenment and the balance between a throw-caution-to-the-wind existence and tow-the-line-obedience is not static even within the life of a single individual.
Yeah, my reflexive reaction is: Quote:“How do you know?!”
/second end of derailment
I totally connect with your sense of being an explorer. I am like that, even to a fault at times. I just wanted to throw out a counter concept that popped into my mind as I read your poetic post. There is a natural survival instinct we have, which actually is to take other people’s word for things and listen to them. This is essential for us in the beginning of our life. Humans are born into a dangerous world, helpless with almost no natural instinctive skills. This is a weakness BUT it is also a huge adaptive quality. We are not locked into fixed behaviors.
We come into the world and ideally find ourselves in a loving, nurturing community (a family, a village, etc.). We immediately soak up survival skills like a sponge. Babies learn what they can eat, what is poisonous, what animals are good and which ones are dangerous. They learn all kinds of amazing things about their environment.
But you are right. At some point, we have to grow out of that dependency or it makes us weak. At some point, we have to become the adults, full of wisdom from a variety of personal experiences — both good and bad. This is the circle of life.
There are a lot of parallels in our spiritual life.
I’m an explorer. I have no real desire to experience crashing into a telephone pole at 80 mphs. However, I wouldn’t mind hand-stitching up my own knife wound, or digging a bullet out of my leg or something.
Once again, like everything in the LDS culture, we just go to the extreme. We take that whole “driving the wagon as far from the edge of the cliff” story way too far. What ever happened to moderation in all things.
Quote:I have no real desire to experience crashing into a telephone pole at 80 mphs. However, I wouldn’t mind hand-stitching up my own knife wound, or digging a bullet out of my leg or something.
Thats funny…. you and I are so much alike! (smile)
Jacob
cwald wrote:I’m an explorer.
I have no real desire to experience crashing into a telephone pole at 80 mphs. However, I wouldn’t mind hand-stitching up my own knife wound, or digging a bullet out of my leg or something.
Once again, like everything in the LDS culture, we just go to the extreme. We take that whole “driving the wagon as far from the edge of the cliff” story way too far. What ever happened to moderation in all things.
LOL! My dad was a race car driver when he was younger. Moderation behind the wheel isn’t in my genes…
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