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The full topic is actually “receiving and recognizing answers to prayers” and the BP additionally asked that I make sure to include how prayer brings us closer to Christ. I’m better with the BP’s additional request than the core topic itself because, as you might know, I don’t generally believe prayers are answered nor do I believe that there is anything one can do that would increase the likelihood of a prayer being answered (strict obedience or being “more worthy” for example). So I thought that I might talk about Joseph Smith’s first prayer, focusing more on “other” versions of the account because in those it is more clear that what he was actually seeking was forgiveness (and that he believes that prayer was answered). I could and likely will throw in there a recycled part from a prior talk about Jesus forgiving everybody in the NT who asked Him, on the spot, no penance or anything else required. I also thought I might mention the sacrament prayers, again mostly using recycled material which focuses on the ordinances and the meaning of the words (specifically that they do state ALL who partake/drink). I also thought I might mention the account of Jesus on the cross calling out “why has thou forsaken me?” as an example of sometimes having to do/endure things on our own – even Jesus (a God) had to do that.
Other than those thoughts I’ve got nothing and certainly no personal stories other than testimony of those things mentioned in the above paragraph. Does anyone have any other thoughts of what I might be able to share while still being authentic? (Note that being authentic in my book does not necessarily require me to stand there and say “I don’t really believe in prayer…” because I am being authentic in talking about what I do believe.)
DarkJedi wrote:
I also thought I might mention the account of Jesus on the cross calling out “why has thou forsaken me?” as an example of sometimes having to do/endure things on our own – even Jesus (a God) had to do that.
Depending on your perspective Jesus could have been citing scripture or scripture was being prophetic about that moment in Jesus’ life… at any rate you might be able to mine Psalm 22 for more material for dealing with times when prayers go unanswered.
I would probably include how “prayer is not the one-size-fits-all” answer we stereotype it to be. Not every “Yes” is going to the same – it might be “Yes AND” or “Yes IF” or “Yes.” or “Yes HOW ABOUT” or “Yes WHAT IF”. You might also include “Thoughts on what to do when a person’s interpretation of prayer/answer to prayer does not match your understanding”.
I think I blogged on here about losing my engagement and wedding rings to the trash and having my husband and I get conflicting impressions on how to solve the problem. Looking back at it now, I believe that my husband got the answer he got because that is what he needed to hear for reassurance, while I got the answer I got because I know myself and the situation, and I needed guidance in recalling the path the rings could have taken. NOTE: you can so steal my story if you want
😆 Your friend,
AmyJ
I would try to find a way to include that prayer is not an attempt to find lost car keys before going to church. There are variations: finding the tv remote, finding my wallet, etc. Anything that includes “finding” in the prayer.
They are pet peeves of mine.
It seems scientific research supports prayer, and you could even bring that angle into it as well….regardless of whether we recognize answers all the time…it is a healthy practice, it seems. Quote:
Prayer and meditation are highly effective in lowering our reactivity to traumatic and negative events,” says Dr. Paul Hokemeyer, a marriage, family and addictions therapist. “They are powerful because they focus our thoughts on something outside ourselves.
Not sure if it is good to go too scientific…church talks should bring in the spiritual and scriptural foundations, but a few nods to these kinds of studies may be a new twist or angle for some in the congregation and may speak to some who are closet skeptics.
Another link:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nzpk9w/how-prayer-and-meditation-changes-your-brain ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nzpk9w/how-prayer-and-meditation-changes-your-brain I just find it interesting that even for things like depression, there is something about prayer that heals our soul. Believing in a higher power is healthy. Even if we only have a desire to believe, God can answer prayers to strengthen and heal us.
Thank you all for the input and insight so far. I hadn’t looked at Jesus’s statement from another point of view, Nibbler, although I believe most members don’t give it any thought at all. Perhaps he was even in a state of delirium at the moment (it was very close to his death) and was singing a hymn? I’ll probably stick with my general view on it, but thanks for Psalm 22 – I think I could use that. (Other OT references NOT Job are also appreciated.)
Amy I generally think the ideas of “no” or “not yet” are cop outs as an excuse for why prayers aren’t answered so it’s probably best for me to avoid that idea if I am to remain authentic. But, your story and the idea of interpretation of the answer – and that two people can interpret the same thing differently – is a good one.
MM – definitely! It’s one of my pet peeves also. I’m probably going to completely avoid the subject of asking for things – any things – anyway.
Heber, thanks, great links! My only personal testimony of prayer right now (and for the past few years) has been that I can and usually do feel peace when I pray. The good news about that is that peace is probably what I’m seeking on those occasions when I do pray. I could see throwing in a reference to scientific thought on the subject – I do live in the more liberal east where we recognize that science is not evil or the antithesis of religion. While I respect the idea of prayer healing the soul, I’d have to be careful mentioning it as a remedy for depression or other mental illness because, even though I do live in the liberal east, there are still enough oldsters around who believe mental illness is akin to demonic possession (especially in this particular branch, and I’m not exaggerating much). I do believe that faith/belief in a higher power is mostly healthy, but I don’t believe we can pray the depression away any more than we can pray the gay or fat away.
DarkJedi wrote:
I hadn’t looked at Jesus’s statement from another point of view, Nibbler, although I believe most members don’t give it any thought at all. Perhaps he was even in a state of delirium at the moment (it was very close to his death) and was singing a hymn? I’ll probably stick with my general view on it, but thanks for Psalm 22 – I think I could use that. (Other OT references NOT Job are also appreciated.)
The angle I use is that if Jesus really did suffer
everythingthen he must have suffered a faith crisis and/or feelings of being abandoned by god because those are in the realm of human experience. Otherwise ordinary folk would be in a position to experience something Jesus did not, and if that were the case Jesus wouldn’t be able to succor people (Alma 7) on those fronts. OT:
Abraham “praying” on behalf of the people in Sodom in Genesis 18. It’s clear Abraham is afraid of incurring the wrath of god through his petitions but his love of the people (or his strong desire to avoid violent solutions to problems) has him overcoming those fears in an effort to barter god down. If there are just 10 righteous people in an entire city, please spare the city. These days it feels like people are quicker to condemn Sodom to destruction. If there are 10 evil people, better nuke it from orbit just to be safe. When we seek justice through prayer, is it to ask for mercy or to seek retribution?
NT:
Luke 18:10-14 – I might shy away from the example of the bad prayer and focus on the prayer that is more “justified.” Prayers don’t have to be flowery, ornate, lengthy. Prayers aren’t a competition. Simple prayers are justified.
nibbler wrote:
The angle I use is that if Jesus really did suffereverythingthen he must have suffered a faith crisis and/or feelings of being abandoned by god because those are in the realm of human experience. Otherwise ordinary folk would be in a position to experience something Jesus did not, and if that were the case Jesus wouldn’t be able to succor people (Alma 7) on those fronts. Yes, that is the tact I take as well. I do testify that Jesus understands us because he did “descend beneath it all” and therefore knows everything we could have to endure – I often throw in there that he also therefore knows what it is like to be persecuted for being gay and judged for being a single/working mom. If you truly believe the scriptures that speak to that idea, you have to believe it all.
My dad used to say that it can be difficult to distinguish between answers to prayers, impressions / promptings, and what we want naturally. Therefore, he focused on trying to do anything that struck him that seemed like a good thing. He said if it was just his own thoughts, it still was a good thing – but if it was an answer to a prayer or a spiritual impression / prompting, he would be following God’s will and not ignoring something he was supposed to do.
He also said if he was going to make a mistake in how he saw someone, he wanted it always to be on the side of mercy rather than on the side of judgment – so he prayed to see others as God saw them.
My dad tried to keep things simple. I like to keep prayer simple. Essentially, “Thank you for the blessings in my life, seen and unseen. Please help me continue to become like you.”
My favourite video on prayer is How People Pray on the Youtube channel Cut. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRN3wWSc3w ][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRN3wWSc3w ] It interviews people from different religions (including a mixed-faith LDS/Catholic couple) about how they pray, why they pray, how they handle it when they don’t seem to get an answer to their prayers. Since prayer is such a widespread way for people to seek peace or reach a high power, I find it’s helpful to look beyond just the typical LDS model for prayer when talking about why it’s important for many people and how/if prayers are answered.My prayers are similarly very simple Curt. I’m not sure how much I want to share about that in a sacrament meeting, but making the point of simplicity would be fine. Jesus taught that idea and it is also referred to in the BoM. Joseph’s prayer appears to have been very simple. Thanks for the links Hazy. Indeed we do not have a monopoly on prayer or belief that we get answers to our prayers. Honestly the typical LDS model of prayer, including “prayer language,” doesn’t really work for me any more.
DarkJedi wrote:
…I don’t believe we can pray the depression away any more than we can pray the gay or fat away.
I get what you’re saying. But just to clarify, it isn’t “praying it away” but it is the exercise program that burns the fat…the mental preparation that connects us to something outside ourselves and believes in future results so we stop just wishing we are thinner and start doing something about it.
If your area has a slant towards mental illness is demonic, maybe that IS needed to be covered in the talk… especially for all those families who struggle with it to various degrees. Research shows prayer and meditation are effective tools. Blaming mental illness on outside forces of evil is part of the problem and stigma.
1) Prayer can help us feel confident and empowered as we go about working on things that we have power to control or influence. 2) Prayer can help us accept with a sense of calm and peace those things that we do not have much power to control or influence.
Quote:God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Perhaps it is irony given the other thread on “changing what we pray for” but maybe being willing to modify our prayers as new information becomes available on what we can and cannot change is a form of wisdom. How can we know the limits of what we can change without experimentation?
Quote:The Other Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity
To stop beating myself up for not doing things perfectly,
The courage to forgive myself because I’m working on doing better,
And the wisdom to know that You already love me just the way I am.
Eleanor Brownn
Roy wrote:
Quote:The Other Serenity Prayer
God, grant me the serenity
To stop beating myself up for not doing things perfectly,
The courage to forgive myself because I’m working on doing better,
And the wisdom to know that You already love me just the way I am.
Eleanor Brownn
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Love it, thanks.
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