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I’m working on a talk, assigned topic: Coming closer to the Savior by following the living prophet. I was hesitant at first but I think I’m OK. Here’s what I have and I’m inviting input. I plan to start with my own struggles as a young convert. I believed (and I still believe) Joseph Smith but I did have trouble with the idea of a living prophet, SWK at the time. I had no problems personally with SWK (at the time) but I just didn’t see the need nor did I see much “propheting” going on. With that I have that it’s OK to have questions and I am using D&C 46 (not all gifts are given to everyone and to some it is given to believe). I admit that I shelved it and that it was a minor part of my later faith crisis/transition. (If you’re worried about what the SP might think, he knows this and he knows I openly admit such things – he in fact encourages it as long as I do no harm). I also include here some stuff from Bushman and Givens about Joseph’s weaknesses and I plan to use D&C 124:1 (“Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, I am well pleased with your offering and acknowledgments, which you have made; for unto this end have I raised you up, that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth.”) and talk about how Joseph’s weaknesses give me hope.
I move on to post faith transition after coming to terms that much of what I believed was teachings of men as opposed to teachings of God and what I now believe is my own testimony. (I leave that quite vague.) I throw in that the last living prophet (TSM) talked about loving each other every single conference and that was a key message of the Savior as well and throw in some scripture. Likewise, the current living prophet has made some big changes all of which seem to be focused on coming closer to the Savior (ministering, two hour block, church name, etc.).
In closing, I thought I’d ask the Primary children to march around the chapel singing “Follow the Prophet.” (OK, just kidding and seeing if you’re still reading.
😈 )Any other thoughts, especially related to how the prophet can help us come closer to the Savior?
I think part of “following a prophet” is considering what they said, why they said it, and asking/pondering what it means in our lives. For example, the recent 10 day past for the women proposed by President Nelson. I did not participate, nor do I plan to. BUT, I took his words as meaning “this is important to think about and do something about” and then I decreased my social media time.
I dissect what the leadership says now than I used to in part to find the good, the useful, and important stuff they say that can apply to me right now.
NOTE: I also refuse to be community guilt-shamed for what I do/don’t do in following leadership. I have always been a bit more “independent”, but now, I really realize that the person who benefits the most or has the most to loose is me – since it is my life, I don’t have time for non-constructive guilt – I do have time for repentance, grace, and “trading up”. If people start that train of thought, I thank them for their input, I remind them that a) it isn’t a current goal I feel prompted to work on or b) I always have specific sub-goals in that area that I am working on with the resources I have and then change the subject.
AmyJ wrote:
For example, the recent 10 day past for the women proposed by President Nelson. I did not participate, nor do I plan to. BUT, I took his words as meaning “this is important to think about and do something about” and then I decreased my social media time.
Great point Amy. I believe the point of the whole exercise was to evaluate how we spend our time and to trade up if possible. If we outwardly take a 10 day break but then return to our previous habits then perhaps we missed the boat.
I think that one benign aspect of “following” any leader is in recognizing that they are models of devotion and trying to emulate them in our own devotion. This doesn’t require us to accept everything they say. Nor does it require us to love everything about any particular individual. When you think of some of the past prophets (GBH, TSM), there are obvious qualities of theirs that rose to the top. If we can find a way to be more like the soft-spoken and kind GBH and couple that with the committed love-driven service of TSM, we’ll be doing alright for ourselves.
You may want to review how revelations comes through the Prophets to the church. We assume the revelations come “fully” formed. Meaning: the Prophet prays & God reveals the complete revelation
and there is no need for changes over time. The reality is revelations do change over time. For example,
Temple work in the Kirtland temple is different than Nauvoo. What happens today is different then in the time
of Nauvoo. We should expect change over time. (Maybe not our lifetime, but you never know.)
Look at polygamy.
Good Luck DJ – With the present administration, I would feign illness on the day of the talk. Now the previous ones I could have found something to talk about, ideas of theirs to emulate, etc.
I am cheering for you over here.
I like to think of “prophet” as a mantel rather than a person. I interpret “by their fruits ye shall know them” to individual ideas and teachings. If a teaching or idea brings forth good fruit, it’s of God. Not all the Q15 say is the word of God, and most in the Church realize it, but we tend to say they weren’t “acting” as a prophet when they said ______ and ______. God uses prophets to give us good ideas and principles. But we must judge those ideas and principles by their own merit, not by the person who gave them. If the seed is good, it is good no matter where it came from.
Thanks for your thoughts. Amy, I am like that too, and that mindset fits pretty well with this topic actually. Nothing RMN is asking us to do hurts us and really can bring us closer to God/Christ. Sometimes trying to do all of it can be a chore though, and I also will not be guilted into reading the BoM every day (or whatever) if that’s not a priority for me right now. And I will not be a travel agent for guilt trips for anyone else.
Good point, OON, and I agree. To me, that’s what sustaining the prophet (or anyone else) means. These guys are just like us – just trying to do the best they can and that’s going to look different for all of us. I intend to somehow make that point and relate it to JS as well.
MM, also a good point and I would like to work that in as well. I have been reading Wrestling the Angel (Givens) and he actually talks about that quite a bit, even that things seemed a bit disheveled at times because things were not always as linear as they appear to have been from our point of view.
Mom, I got this. I’m actually a huge fan of the changes RMN has made and I do honestly believe he is motivated to help us be closer to Christ. It’s pretty easy to point to ministering (aka love one another) and the two hour block and say that they can bring us closer to Christ. Like OON says, I don’t have to agree with every word they say but I can support ministering. Are these things revelation? Inspiration? Or just the things an old man has wished for a long time? Don’t know and don’t care. And as part of talking about RMN I am going to bring up Uchtdorf’s “Are You Sleeping Through the Restoration?” (because I always have Uchtdorf quotes and because I think it’s applicable).
Agreed, Dande. Again, none of these things he has asked us to do hurts anybody. He wasn’t the one who doubled down on marriage and anti-gay rhetoric, that was his counselor. And it’s OK to disagree with that even if he was the one – as long as you’re just disagreeing and not taking it farther than that. I’m not even going to bring that up, although I have had private conversations about it.
DarkJedi wrote:
Are these things revelation? Inspiration? Or just the things an old man has wished for a long time? Don’t know and don’t care. And as part of talking about RMN I am going to bring up Uchtdorf’s “Are You Sleeping Through the Restoration?” (because I always have Uchtdorf quotes and because I think it’s applicable).
I have been thinking about how we try to reduce a lot of concepts into “OR” – Is it this OR this reason?, when it’s probably actually AND in various undefined percentages that vary from person to person (and I would not put it past varying for a specific person at different times as well) …
The 2-hour church may be revelation AND inspiration AND something that an old man (and numerous parents of young children) have wished for AND a chance to free up time/resources for small group/family/individual studies AND a time for more people to nap AND a chance to utilize church resources differently AND redistribute the burdens of callings on some level. In fact, there are probably reasons I have not listed that are additional ANDs for specific people –
andI think that is great 😆 I love the talk outline. Please give us an update after you deliver it. Quote:Mom, I got this. I’m actually a huge fan of the changes RMN has made and I do honestly believe he is motivated to help us be closer to Christ. It’s pretty easy to point to ministering (aka love one another) and the two hour block and say that they can bring us closer to Christ. Like OON says, I don’t have to agree with every word they say but I can support ministering. Are these things revelation? Inspiration? Or just the things an old man has wished for a long time? Don’t know and don’t care. And as part of talking about RMN I am going to bring up Uchtdorf’s “Are You Sleeping Through the Restoration?” (because I always have Uchtdorf quotes and because I think it’s applicable).
You will and you do. I am so aware that this leadership team is going to be a challenge for me. I can sort of see the silver linings (ministering, less church, etc.) but something gut level isn’t comfortable. I am with Curt –
Quote:Please give us an update after you deliver it.
I maybe the very person you are writing it for.
Sorry DJ, this doesn’t help, I just need to vent. General conference wasn’t that long ago so we got a lot of the follow the prophet business in the month leading up to conference. A lot. My issue? It’s nearly always, “coming closer to the savior by following the prophet” and rarely (in my experience), “coming closer to god by following Jesus.” Is there a difference? Should there be?
We got reminded of the official name of the church by the living prophet. Turns out it’s not the church of the Living Prophet of Latter-day Saints. Yeah, came as a surprise to me too. And while I’m on the subject I have to say, the reiteration of the name change thing… it’s ammo to the behavior police. Maybe if nothing is said the behavior police will just enforce some other rule so it might as well be something benign like saying Mormon.
Quote:What’s in a name or, in this case, a nickname? When it comes to nicknames of the Church, such as the “LDS Church,” the “Mormon Church,” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us—even His Atonement.
We strain at the gnat of a nickname but swallow the camel by removing the lord when it comes time to talk about who or what it is we’re supposed to be following.
Sorry.
Good luck with your talk.
The Brigham Young Quote is my reliance right now, Quote:“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him”
mom3 wrote:
The Brigham Young Quote is my reliance right now,Quote:“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him”
The interesting side benefit to this faith transition is that
I am doing more with less😆 I am certain about a lot less these days, but I am focused on acting on the few things I am certain of.
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