- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
cwald wrote:
These two comments COULD be mildly offensive to me. (I’ve read GB and Euhemerus enough on these blogs to not be offended, however, if I heard this from a TBM — yeah, I would be offended.)
Ah, shucks, thanks cwald. I’ll try harder!
Heber13 wrote:Now I am not saying you are in favor of blind obedience or that you imply it in your message, but there is that tone of “I don’t believe it is a revelation as we are taught it by the church now, I will obey it anyway”. Personally, that is how I think through it…it is just not a big deal, so I am not sacrificing anything by giving up tea to be in good church standings, so I choose to live it.
No, that’s not what I mean at all. With things like this (paying tithing to the church, obeying WoW, etc.) I view it as a contract. For me to remain a “member in good standing” including a temple recommend, the church requires me to obey the WoW. By obtaining a temple recommend, I am agreeing to that contract (literally signing the temple recommend). Since I try to uphold my contracts (integrity) I keep the WoW.This is subtly different than blind obedience. Blind obedience is an abdication of decision making due to trust/faith/confidence/etc. in the authority. It accepts the contract
becauseof the person giving it. My response is a conscious decision to accept the contract because I want to. We might ask why I would want to accept the contract? The answer is the same for anyone. I accept the contract because I believe the benefit to me outweighs the costs. As I have kept the WoW all my life keeping the WoW is virtually no cost to me. So accepting the contract is a no-brainer. I admit that at surface value there is no difference between my method and blind obedience. The vitally important part of this discussion here is to see how many different approaches can lead to powerfully spiritual adaptation and change. Hopefully at some point, we will realize there is no way to “prove” the new universal and absolute boundary line in the Word of Wisdom. I’ve read through several different personal answers from people in this thread, both orthodox and “rebellious.” All of them have something in common that is very important — you are doing what you do for a reason, and that reason produces valuable results. Some people continue to obey the WofW in the normal way, but *NOW* they are doing so with an actual reason that has deep meaning to them. They could drink tea or a beer, but they choose not to and they know why they choose not to. That is pure religion IMO.
Some people alter their practice of the WofW, and they are also doing this in a conscious way that has deep meaning. It could be about enjoyment, a sense of de-programming oneself (which can be powerful when done with a lot of self-reflection), or also seeking a direct relationship with God in regards to “commandments.”
Either way, or in paths in between, we should be doing what WE think is best — doing the best with what we have been given as life experience. We should test the boundaries of our heart and mind, and we should question our self above all in our journey. This is the essence of becoming comfortable in the new personal journey that starts after leaving the Conventional-Synthetic faith framework (aka “stage 3”).
Yeah, if I could give a concise reason for why I accept the WofW, it would be what Brian said – because I personally find deep meaning in sacrificing in that particular way for the sake of those who would stumble and fall through consumption – and what Eu said – because I personally love the temple and am willing to have the WofW included in the contract I sign. For me, it’s not more complicated than that.
cwald wrote:GBSmith wrote:cwald managed to touch on every aggravating thing about church history that’s bothered me so I can honestly say I feel your pain. Hope I wasn’t part of the fire lighting.
Hey, it’s all good. I’ve read enough of your posts to know you’re not preaching or being TBM on me – there is a reason you’re on this site – like the rest of us. When i hear these kind of things coming from bishops, brain-washed family members, and overweight gossipy RS presidents, that’s when the hide really starts to chap.
Well, I’ve just had a difficult evening out, trying to explain to certain people why I’m not drinking alcohol, tea or coffee… I got asked every five minutes whether I wanted one of these things. Eventually my friends became drunker and drunker, and one of them both drunk and wired on coffee… strange situation, but I did feel after a while that they weren’t respecting my choice. I eventually had to say about the drink, “look, I don’t want to, and when I say ‘no’, I mean ‘no'”. All of the things in the WoW are hardwired into our national culture, as I’ve said before, but anyway.
Now, with the overweight thing, you’ve touched on another concern of mine. Many TBMs have appalling diets, and junk food (of one kind or another) gets served up at church events. Whether that’s candy, fatty stuff, or stodgy baking. If we’re strict about the body = temple line, we should probably be careful about this stuff as well, but we’re not. Since changing my diet recently, my weight has gone down quite a bit, but I do notice that in this regard, TBMs are no better in their eating habit than the “Gentiles”. A bit of double standards here perhaps. (Without going into the meat question)
Yup – and I hope eating habits are never added to the WofW. 
The funny thing about diets is the fact that some people are trying to sue fast food restaurants the same way they’re suing tobacco companies. I think most Mormons are in favor of tobacco lawsuits to prevent smoking, but they’re opposed to suing fast food on the basis of free agency. I don’t think this line of reasoning is consistent…. There is some good evidence that junk food is addictive. Certain burger chains, including that one with the clown, have a despicable record of trying to sell their trash to children. The idea is that the grown up children will associated it with good times in their childhood, so it becomes comfort food.
If you ever hear the words, “ Please bless this food that it will nourish and strengthen our bodies” before eating double chocolate brownies… …you might be a Mormon.
Cnsl1 wrote:If you ever hear the words, “
Please bless this food that it will nourish and strengthen our bodies” before eating double chocolate brownies… …you might be a Mormon.
If your jello has sliced vegetables in it…you might be a Mormon.
How do you know a good Mormon from a bad Mormon? …the temperature of their caffeine!
OK, now I have to claen the water off my computer screen – and explain to my co-worker why I’m laughing hysterically! 😆 😆 😆 😆 Old-Timer wrote:OK, now I have to claen the water off my computer screen – and explain to my co-worker why I’m laughing hysterically!
😆 😆 😆 😆 But was the “water” in the form of cola, coffee, or tea???????
To be fair though, there are some other issues to tea and coffee as well as caffeine. SamBee wrote:To be fair though, there are some other issues to tea and coffee as well as caffeine.
Yes, but mostly good things though…the tanin argument is scientifically weak, while the health benefits of green tea and coffee have recently been shown to be quite beneficial. NOW, that’s if you don’t add all the cream and sugar most do….
I’ll stick to my glass of red wine with dinner….
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.