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JAC wrote:
I have scarcely entertained a lustful thought in the last three years and feel completely free from those chains. The meetings were one of many tools I used to find lasting change, and I was grateful for them.
Hi JAC.
I experience “lustful thoughts”. I just acknowledge them and move on. For me those thoughts do not seem like the enemy. However, I speak as one who does not consider himself as an addict (maybe the comparison of “social drinker” vs. alcoholic might be helpful). I am happy for your happiness and your continued success.
Minyan Man wrote:SamBee said:
Quote:if you go to AA on a regular basis you will meet people who’ve been in and out of rehab programs like bunnies with a warren. They are great for getting chemicals out of somebody’s system or for healing some damage but unfortunately when someone leaves it is partly in their hands whether they want to start again. A person has to develop the will to want to stop permanently and drugs and hospitalization won’t do that alone.
“like bunnies with a warren.” I never heard that expression before.My own experience with rehab & treatment centers are limited. I went to a 30 day inpatient treatment center that integrated the AA program. (That was 26+ years ago) When you were finished, there was after care which consisted of counselling sessions one or twice a week. Patients had to make a commitment to attend regular AA meetings & declare where their “home” group was. The meeting place where you regularly attend. In the US there are fewer & fewer inpatient treatment facilities. This is because insurance programs usually cover only outpatient treatment programs. And the cost is prohibitive for out of pocket coverage.
As I’m thinking about this: when a patient has a particular type of cancer that recurs a year or two after diagnosis & treatment, do we refer to them as
Quote:being in and out of treatment like bunnies with a warren?
Or, do we treat them with the compassion, empathy & dignity they deserve?
I was trying to think of a decent metaphor. No, I wouldn’t compare it with cancer treatment. Although addictions can kill and cause permanent damage, there is a kind of level of choice that isn’t present with cancer. I have heard from and spoken with numerous people who have been in and out of rehab. Six or seven times in some cases. Possibly more…
In this country, unlike the USA, one doesn’t have to pay to go into rehab (there are expensive private places but they are another matter.) This makes rehab a different proposition than it is in the states. There are some church charities (non-LDS) – the RCs run a good retreat center about forty miles out of the city in a monastery – I think that seems to do extra good in the sense of it being in a quiet, beautiful spot and it’s not horribly clinical (I’ve visited), so it seems to cheer people up.
However, these clinics tend to be for drink and drugs – not certain other addictions.
While in rehab, people often manage to quit for quite a while… but the problem comes when they get back out. Do they relapse? The more experienced folks at AA have told me that if you go into rehab you have to have the right determination and also the plan when you get back out. The LDS is a good environment for people who’ve quit drink in some ways as we don’t even have wine at sacrament and the church has a large community of non-drinkers and non-drink related events. One of the sayings I’ve heard in AA is that if you sit in a barber’s chair long enough, you’ll get a haircut i.e. recovering alcoholics shouldn’t go regularly to places where there will be drink or.drinkers.
NightSG wrote:Minyan Man wrote:They are closer to me than my own family members who are not alcoholics.
This. The one saving grace of the local ARP couple is that the wife is a recovering alcoholic of ~35 years, and the husband admits he has no clue what it was like for her beyond her descriptions. (They were married after her recovery.)
Going to someone who has never had a real physical addiction makes about as much sense as asking your bishop what a period is supposed to feel like. Even if he’s raised a dozen daughters he’s never felt one.
Not entirely sure. I think bona fide or severe addicts in general are good enough. We have had several gamblers through. It may not count as a physical addiction – although I’m sure there is a brain chemistry element to it all – but many of us agree that it is a serious issue. Gambling may not leave you with a scarred liver, bad lungs or track marks on your arms… but out of all the addictions it can have some of the most serious consequences to other. The financial cost of gambling can outstrip pretty much any other addiction. One usually reaches a cost ceiling with physical dependencies – gambling costs juat expand to as much as you can get away with. Gambling can destroy families and businesses, even entire banks, in a way nothing else can.
Even though I’ve never had a gambling problem (well not really I’ve tended to steer clear), I quickly found I had some community of interest with gamblers at ARP and we could help each other to some extent.
SamBee wrote:Firstly, in my experience AA and ARP encourage people to seek out medical treatment if necessary. They don’t discourage it or aim to displace it. In fact, AA operates within some medical facilities.
I agree with that…and didn’t mean to suggest hospitals only for all situations. I think personal situations vary…so there are different types of support for different situations…but was wondering why the church is doing a ARP instead of letting community resources, whether that is medical professionals or social programs in the community. Is the church and it’s programs qualified to do it properly? IDK. Maybe it is fine, maybe it is a good effort and better than nothing, because people need a free thing to go to that can help. But…is ARP competing with AA and is that good? Or should the church just send to AA or other community programs?
SamBee wrote:In AA, you meet people who’ve lived it – this adds a more human touch and is more relatable. The doctors are doing it as a job, and go back home every night. In the twelve step you get to make friends with people.
I can definitely see the value of support groups, which goes beyond just medical treatment. Most medical professionals recommend such things to help ongoing success and prevent recurring trips to the medical teams…better to have support ongoing. Total agreement with that.JAC wrote:I started attending LDS ARP meetings a little over three years ago for a porn addiction. While I believe that not all porn users are addicted, I certainly was.
My first meeting was at a men only, porn addiction meeting. I didn’t like it and was embarrassed to be there. I almost didn’t come back, but the missionary that ran the meeting introduced himself to me afterward and told me to come back. I still remember his piercing eyes as he issued that invitation.
I came back to the next meeting and regularly attended for about six months. Those meetings were a source of strength for me and I gleaned a lot of knowledge that was instrumental in me successfully working through the twelve steps.
The steps worked! I have been completely free of porn & masturbation since my first meeting. I have scarcely entertained a lustful thought in the last three years and feel completely free from those chains. The meetings were one of many tools I used to find lasting change, and I was grateful for them.
I still attend meetings occasionally to share what I’ve learned with others.
This is a great story!! Thanks for sharing that. I think this is very positive to see that it can make a difference. Definitely was what I wanted to know…is it helpful? Does it make a difference?Apparently…yes, it does. Thanks for sharing!
Quote:…was wondering why the church is doing a ARP instead of letting community resources, whether that is medical professionals or social programs in the community. Is the church and it’s programs qualified to do it properly? IDK. Maybe it is fine, maybe it is a good effort and better than nothing, because people need a free thing to go to that can help. But…is ARP competing with AA and is that good? Or should the church just send to AA or other community
There are a number of 12 Step Programs out there – I really think the more the merrier.
* In early stages of recovery, the addict needs more contact IMHO and having plenty of meetings available is good in that sense.
* I don’t see ARP as competing with AA etc or medical treatment, so much as complementing them.
* Sometimes you have to ditch a meeting. This can be because there’s a bad atmosphere or other trouble – having somewhere else to go is good. ARP is very LDS – although we do get non-members from time to time – but also often less angry.
The people who wrote the ARP manual have studied AA etc fairly thoroughly and there are signs in it that recovering addicts have been involved in its creation. Its strength and weakness is that it is very LDS – the quotes are of varying suitability. However it is a HUGE step forward as traditionally speakers in LDS churches have played at Peter Priesthood and Molly Mormon – here we have acknowledgement that many members have checkered pasts, that one can be a good Mormon despite your past issues and struggles. It’s very positive that way. I have to say that in some ARP, I have felt the spirit very strongly and there is a form of renewal in it.
Short version: This is practical Mormonism which helps members and does not destroy other programs.
Quote:I started attending LDS ARP meetings a little over three years ago for a porn addiction. While I believe that not all porn users are addicted, I certainly was.
My first meeting was at a men only, porn addiction meeting. I didn’t like it and was embarrassed to be there. I almost didn’t come back, but the missionary that ran the meeting introduced himself to me afterward and told me to come back. I still remember his piercing eyes as he issued that invitation.
I came back to the next meeting and regularly attended for about six months. Those meetings were a source of strength for me and I gleaned a lot of knowledge that was instrumental in me successfully working through the twelve steps.
The steps worked! I have been completely free of porn & masturbation since my first meeting. I have scarcely entertained a lustful thought in the last three years and feel completely free from those chains. The meetings were one of many tools I used to find lasting change, and I was grateful for them.
I still attend meetings occasionally to share what I’ve learned with others.
Again, thanks so much sharing. That’s a source of strength and comfort for me.
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