Temple difficulties

[Anonymous]

I went to the temple just under a year ago, when I was engaged to my now-husband. I struggled with the choice to go—I knew that I’d be asked to hearken to my husband, I was apprehensive about the role of women and polygamy. In some ways, I felt abandoned by my fiancé and family and church—to be fair, I had a hard time expressing my concerns, but I felt so much pressure to just go and be okay with everything. And I did want to go, or at least I wanted to give the temple a fair shot and I wanted (and still want) an eternal marriage.

But I can’t accept so many things in the temple. It’s an issue that I think about daily. It adds significant distress to my life, but that’s okay. What’s life without struggle, whatever. Mostly I try not to think about it, and I haven’t been back since my sealing. But now a close family member has gotten engaged. She’ll be married in the temple. I’ll be expected to go. I have no idea what to do.

On the one hand, I love her, I think she’s making a great choice, and I want to support her. I also don’t want to be ostracized by my family and my church community. I want to give the church the benefit of the doubt and assume that things will change. I want to be good.

But I KNOW that I don’t agree with the role of women as portrayed in the temple. I’ve read and prayed SO much and nothing has changed my mind. This isn’t a doubt, this isn’t a trial, it’s something that I know and feel very passionate about. To go to the temple, to give off the appearance that I support the temple—it feels like I’m throwing my integrity out the window. I don’t want my younger siblings to go for the first time and think, “Well, X goes to the temple, so these ideas must be okay.” I feel a huge responsibility to act according to my beliefs — I hope that the temple ceremony will one day change, but why would it if everyone keeps hush about their problems? For once in my life I feel like I have the opportunity to actually take a stand about my beliefs, rather than just ranting to my husband or passively posting on Facebook.

So what do I do? Do I go? Do I not go? No choice feels like a win.

[Anonymous]

One thing my faith crisis and the good people here have taught me is that there are a lot more options than just “all in” and “all out.” The Church seems to work hard to present only those two options for almost any choice. Do you have any creative options that allow you to take a stand, talk about the issues, and also support your close family member? For example, if there’s an endowment ceremony everyone is expected to attend, can you not do so?

[Anonymous]

You mentioned that the temple adds significant stress to your daily life. I’ve spent many years trying to make other people happy at the expense of my own happiness. It didn’t work out very well. I wanted to lead off my response with that idea because I didn’t want the rest of what I post to come across as me trying to change your mind about things.

plainandtall wrote:

But I can’t accept so many things in the temple.

Are there things in the temple that you can accept? For example, I still like doing baptisms but I don’t enjoy doing endowment sessions.

plainandtall wrote:

But now a close family member has gotten engaged. She’ll be married in the temple. I’ll be expected to go. I have no idea what to do.

If your main issue is the hearkening covenant during the endowment the good news is that the people that attend the sealing don’t do an endowment session first, they just dress in their regular Sunday clothes and put some little paper booties over their shoes. You don’t have to do an endowment session to support your friend in their sealing. The bad news is that the sealing ordinance also includes some language that places the sexes on unequal ground, so be aware of that.

plainandtall wrote:

To go to the temple, to give off the appearance that I support the temple—it feels like I’m throwing my integrity out the window. I don’t want my younger siblings to go for the first time and think, “Well, X goes to the temple, so these ideas must be okay.”

I’m assuming that there’s a good chance that your younger siblings will eventually go to the temple sometime in the future. You could be a part of their (sorry, I don’t know the official label for this) temple escort entourage and explain your concerns with them afterwards so they know where you stand. Who knows, they may be feeling the same way and feel like they are alone in their concerns. Even a simple “I know, it’s weird isn’t it?” from a familiar face on the day of can go a long way.

I’m guessing that your siblings won’t spend much energy keeping tabs on whether or not you attend the temple regularly. They may go through the temple, have concerns, and make the assumption that you go to the temple regularly and are okay with things, or think that you’re okay with these things because you’ve been to the temple (at least once) and never raised a concern. I think assumptions will be made (on both sides) until there’s a conversation.

With someone like a sibling I’d probably attend the temple when they receive their endowment as a show of support and talk about their feelings and my feelings over dinner afterwards. Attending the endowment session together could be the icebreaker, a shared shared experience that can be talked about. Again, I’m not saying what you should do, I’m saying one thing I’d consider doing myself. I’d probably tell myself that I’m not supporting the endowment, I’m supporting my [family member].

It’s another take on a theme that comes up from time to time when trying to StayLDS, be accessible when someone mourning at church needs a person to mourn with. I don’t think that means do things that cause us distress though. I know I’ve got lots and lots of bruises while attending church waiting for the day I can be there for a mourner. Some, maybe most, days I wonder whether it’s worth it. Enough about me…

plainandtall wrote:

This isn’t a doubt, this isn’t a trial, it’s something that I know and feel very passionate about.

I love the way you phrased this.

plainandtall wrote:

So what do I do? Do I go? Do I not go? No choice feels like a win.

I feel you. Hey, if the MoTab can sing at Trump’s inauguration… but that sounds like me trying to sway your decision, which I want to avoid. I know it’s difficult. Sometimes just talking about things in the open can make the path forward more visible.

Welcome to StayLDS.

[Anonymous]

plainandtall,

First of all welcome. I look forward to hearing your perspective in the future and I hope you find this site/community helpful.

I haven’t been to the temple since probably before you started grade school. So, my perspective is different from yours. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the temple has sexism built into it and I understand the angst that it can give to try to participate in something that has a strong negative aspect. Others may not even notice it, but it’s a big deal to you, so it’s all you can see.

When it comes to the Church in general, I think it can work very well to put ourselves in a position where we do not feel responsible for the failings of the Church. We may perceive those failings in different ways. For you it is sexism. I get that and it is one of my hot-buttons as well, but I don’t think it’s the biggest one for me. A bigger issue in the Church, for me, is the stance on same-sex marriage. So, I frequently am confronted by this question: How can I stay in the Church when I think it is completely wrong on this issue and by its stance continues to hurt people in the Church, especially those children who don’t yet know they are homosexual, but are learning to sing “Follow the Prophet” in primary? Does my presence in the Church inadvertently give strength to its position because I am not actively opposing the Church?

Where I stand on this right now is that I am OK staying in the Church because I want there to continue to be friendly faces and voices for our gay/lesbian members and their families. I don’t ever say or do anything in support of the Church’s position, and when I have opportunities to do so, I offer my thoughts that are basically summarized as: “I understand the Church’s position as far as the doctrine is concerned, but I support same-sex marriage as a civil matter and I think we need to be kind and understanding to our gay/lesbian members. They have done nothing wrong and we need to find a way to bridge the gap.” In doing so, I am trying to make a difference. My leaving the Church would have absolutely zero effect. My staying, and being a calm voice for love and empathy may make some difference.

A totally different thought: spirituality is a very personal matter. The Church is merely a vehicle, not the objective. To the extent that this creaky and gaudily painted bus gets me to where I want to go, I am OK with getting on board, even though it may not always follow the most direct route. On occasions where it’s not going in the direction I want, I don’t get on board. The Church is a bus, but the destination is mine. With that in mind, I feel empowered to pick and choose. I condemn polygamy, yet I think JS was an amazing person who thought of himself as a prophet and who was wildly successful in what he perceived as his God-given calling. I love the concept of the temple, even though I cannot condone the 18th century style division of the sexes. (My lack of temple attendance is not because of any one specific issue, other than not being a believer).

In other words, I am able to compartmentalize issues in the Church. I do not feel that I have to answer for the Church’s faults. When I go to sacrament meeting, some of what is said there I agree with completely, other things I disagree with completely. It’s not either or. I can accommodate both in the same meeting. One approach you could try, but this is just me thinking out loud, is to have a conversation with your husband about what “hearken” means to each of you. In other words, there is the specific (you and your husband) and the general (the Church). Not mixing the two is a secret sauce that helps get through many issues, at least for me. I have my own beliefs. Sometimes the Church and I don’t agree. But that’s true with my neighbor, the grocery store where I shop, the local/state/federal government.

plainandtall wrote:

But now a close family member has gotten engaged. She’ll be married in the temple. I’ll be expected to go. I have no idea what to do.

Tough situation, no question. All I can tell you is that it wouldn’t be helpful to make your close family member’s wedding a platform for protest. My advice would be to participate and separate the sexism in the temple out of the equation. That’s a question and a battle for another day.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum.

I don’t have a lot to add to what others have said, I think you’re getting some good counsel.

On Own Now touched on this, but I am curious about your husband’s status. Often we are in situations where we are the doubtful spouse and out companion is the more faithful one. Sometimes we’re in it together. What’s your husband’s status? Can you talk to him, even in the general terms?

I’ll also say I like your terminology:

Quote:

This isn’t a doubt, this isn’t a trial, it’s something that I know and feel very passionate about.

I recently heard a talk where the guy (a faithful guy) substituted the word doubt for pain in a talk about doubt. It is pain, I get it and he got it.

Stay here and talk this through with us. May you find the peace you seek.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

In some ways, I felt abandoned by my fiancé and family and church—to be fair, I had a hard time expressing my concerns, but I felt so much pressure to just go and be okay with everything.

You, me, and maybe millions of LDS women past and present.

My sister chose to register her opinion on the temple by not going through our daughter’s pre-mission endowment session, but dressed and met us in the celestial room. Maybe not every place allows that. It was just enough of a side-issue that it didn’t disrupt. But it doesn’t sound like your absence would go unnoticed, and nothing you’re saying makes me think that not going is a great idea for you now.

I think the hard thing isn’t having an opinion counter to culture and teachings, it’s being willing to voice it. On a good day like today, my advice is to start talking. Here, at home, with friends and family. Does your husband know how you feel? Could you say: The endowment was hard for me because ___________; but I love ________ and want to go and support her. I like the togetherness of family in the temple, etc. etc. Do you have any like-minded friends for safe talks? Are you around your siblings enough to talk to them about your experience? That it was a mixed-bag. You love the ideas, the aspirations of the temple, but it’s still a product of its 19th century (and polygamous to boot!) founders. Stuff like that. I’m probably getting the flavor wrong for your people, but my blood pressure dropped like a rock when I started forcing some actual words out of my mouth.

But integrity is important. It’s why I don’t say “yes” to the hearkening. It’s why I would have to pray during a sealing of a loved one. For me, that prayer would be full of thanks for life itself, for the day, my family, our love for each other, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by which I know now: God is not the author of demeaning, sexist scripture and temple ordinances.

I’m glad you’re here and hope it helps.

[Anonymous]

I blogged about this exact problem here: https://bycommonconsent.com/2015/02/25/temple-prep-for-daughters-brace-yourself/

No easy answers. I feel ya.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting, and welcome to the forum.

plainandtall wrote:

I felt so much pressure to just go and be okay with everything. And I did want to go, or at least I wanted to give the temple a fair shot and I wanted (and still want) an eternal marriage.

First of all…good job on making some good choices with hope and faith to give it a fair shot. I truly believe God looks upon the heart and sees that you were giving it a shot with hope. That is all you can do. And you should feel good about it.

plainandtall wrote:

But I can’t accept so many things in the temple. It’s an issue that I think about daily. It adds significant distress to my life, but that’s okay. What’s life without struggle

yes…life has those struggles to get us to think through things, what we believe and what we feel is right and what we want to do about it. So, good job on identifying these things…but don’t dismiss those feelings either. They are part of you, and dealing with them is what helps grow. If that is how you feel, than that is how you feel, and you work through it and learn from it and define your faith and your religion to you.

One strategy is to learn to embrace a cafeteria approach…and accept that is not a cop out or a weak stance. It is a responsible way to pay attention to things that are important to you, while also not throwing out the whole religion, or the whole temple meaning, over the few things that are seriously problematic and distressing and cannot be put up on a shelf forever and ignored.

There is plenty in the temple that is problematic enough to justify your feelings. And when you hear things by others in church or family that it is the most “godly place on earth” and the best experience of their lives…andyou feel it isn’t a peaceful place for you…that is ok…tell yourself that is ok to feel differently, allow yourself to have a different experience, and accept that they are expressing how they feel…and it doesn’t have to be the same as how you feel.

The cafeteria approach is to absorb what is good for you, discard what is bad, and add what is uniquely yours. We can come to a resolution to try to do that in our lives internally and feel good about it…but it is often very hard to do that outwardly to others who only want to hear how great and wonderful the temple is, since that is what our church teaches is the pinnacle of our religion. And yet…you have your experience.

My advice is just not to dismiss your feelings and your experience. But…we can learn to navigate our faith by accepting differences, even among how we believe what the temple means to us.

I can understand the problems women have with how it is presented. I do see all that happens in the temple as a symbolic ritualistic and mystical experience. I realize that doesn’t solve the problems, but it is one way to help frame it. It just doesn’t mean we have to let it define our eternal identities…it is simply problems with the way our church is run by male prophets, and how they’ve done things not realizing the impact it has on individuals…and hopefully in time gets corrected. Yes…even the temple gets changed and corrected over time.

If your friend is going to the temple and you want to support her, that is a good thing. Perhaps your experience is exactly what she needs as a friend…you might be surprised how many others, even those in your family, feel similar to you and deal with similar feelings. We are better off having these discussions with people than burying them in fear everyone else is hunky dory with it all and we are the only ones that struggle.

I do that for my kids and have decided to be there for them and am glad I’ve been there for it, even if I leave the other stuff behind…I focus on the day for that person. It is worth it for me. In other words…it doesn’t have to be problem free in order for me to go and support my loved ones. I have also found most of my kids don’t have the same issues right now with the temple I do. That’s ok. I accept that is part of my experience, and I just have to figure out what I choose to do about it. So far, I’ve chosen to be there for them when I can, so I can show my support. I deal with my other faith issues and personal temple stuff on my own.

I don’t have to take a stand for everything I feel in my heart. I pick my battles…and find some things are not the hill to die on for my internal beliefs…I prioritize and put some things above others so I can build family relationships. It’s not always clean and easy.

I think you can choose what is best for you. Go and deal with the feelings you have while you support your friend and family. Or refuse to go and avoid those feelings, but just deal with the outcome of saying you don’t want to be there. Either way…hopefully you can find the best outcome of an imperfect situation.

Keep posting and keep us updated on how you work through your situation. I look forward to learning more from your posts.

[Anonymous]

On Own Now wrote:

All I can tell you is that it wouldn’t be helpful to make your close family member’s wedding a platform for protest. My advice would be to participate and separate the sexism in the temple out of the equation. That’s a question and a battle for another day.

I agree. It is their special day and that means not drawing undue attention to yourself. You could fake an illness the morning of the event or you could offer to be the babysitter for the couples that are attending or you could just go and hold your tongue for the sake of your family member’s happiness.

I agree that by these actions people may assume that you are not against the temple. Frankly, I am not sure that this is a bad thing. There is still an opportunity to discuss some of your concerns one on one with people that are important to you when the subject comes up naturally in conversation. That IMO is the communication forum where people are the most receptive to actually listening. I imagine that in this context saying something like, “I have always been really bothered by some of the holdover sexist language used in the temple.” would be appropriate.

As a separate topic, the sexist language used in the endowment mirrors pretty closely the sexist language used by Paul in his epistle to the Corinthians. I personally find this helpful because it means that these elements were likely borrowed from the bible and predominant 19th century Christian thought in general rather than received by JS from God through revelation. Because I believe in an ongoing restoration, this opens the door to the thought that impurities (such as sexism) to the temple ceremonies and to the gospel generally will be slowly weeded out over time.

plainandtall wrote:

I wanted (and still want) an eternal marriage…..But I can’t accept so many things in the temple. It’s an issue that I think about daily. It adds significant distress to my life

Is it possible for you that your eternal marriage has little or nothing to do with the temple? I know that in the church we tend to teach that eternal marriage begins and ends with the temple but I believe that may be a mistake. Maybe the eternal nature of your union with your husband has more to do with the quality of the marriage rather than the authority by which is was performed. I am hoping that this thought might help make the temple less of a daily thought/concern for you in order to make more room for actual living and building meaningful relationships with the people that you deem to be important in your life.

[Anonymous]

Wow. Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It’s so, so helpful to hear fresh perspectives and I’m overwhelmed by how welcoming this community is. Already, I feel lighter.

To respond to some of the comments:

I do like many aspects of the temple! The idea of temple worship is very compelling to me. When I first went through, it didn’t even seem weird, just very Mormon. And I like what a lot of people have suggested, to quietly voice my concerns at appropriate moments with those I’m close to. I actually did this with my cousin (the one who’s getting married). I was out of town for her endowment but reached out to her after as I rightly expected she would share some of my concerns.

I’ve talked about this with my husband a lot, both before and after I was endowed. He has many of the same concerns I do, but his approach is very utilitarian—he values his family traditions and sees the value of Mormonism/the church in his life, so he puts his issues on a shelf and carries on. His response to me is that he thinks I’ll be happier if I can put my mind at rest re: these issues, and he’ll support me however I decide to do that. I’m really grateful for his open support, but I do worry about the burden I’ll place on him if I’m more public with my concerns.

I definitely agree that I don’t want to make a scene on the wedding day, and I think family support is incredibly important. So in that regard, I would like to go.

I just get disheartened because if all anyone does is quietly talk about these concerns in private, what is the mechanism for change? Without doing more, I feel complicit in the problem. If I saw sexism like this anywhere else (an organization, my family, anywhere), I would be (and am) SO outspoken about it. To remain relatively quiet about the temple seems incongruous (though in any situation, I would want to remain respectful of what is sacred about the temple).

Another thing (maybe should have mentioned in the OP) is that I regularly don’t wear garments. Two reasons: 1. Inevitably, they’re a reminder of the temple and my concerns. 2. I have sensitive skin and want to crawl out of my skin after about three hours of wearing them. It’s a vicious cycle of being physically incredibly uncomfortable, so I can’t forget I’m wearing them, which leads me to think about the temple and being mentally uncomfortable. Ugh. It’s frustrating because I like the idea of religious clothing and I’m fine with dressing modestly. Why does it have to be so painful? I thought I might get used to them, but no luck yet. Anyway, my point is that I’m not sure I’m even worthy to attend the temple…

[Anonymous]

I don’t wear mine to sleep because I sleep much better without them, and I still feel worthy to go. I regard worthiness as being between me and God, or at least between me and the subconscious part of me that represents God (whichever ends up being more accurate).

There’s a thread on this board about the temple recommend interview questions that I’ve found very useful. You might want to check it out:

http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6117

By the way, welcome to the island of misfit toys.

[Anonymous]

A supportive/understanding spouse is at least half the battle. Count yourself lucky! I take a pretty open view on wearing the garments, and that thing that gets read to you in the TR interview is not doctrine IMO. I only recall the person saying I should wear them throughout my life, no time amounts, etc. It is perfectly understandable that some people are bothered by them for whatever reason.

[Anonymous]

I don’t have a lot to add except just to say that I am going through exactly what you are going through right now. I don’t have a close family member getting ready to go through the temple but it is a possibility in the future. My husband does want me to go though, and so far things have been so busy that it hasn’t worked out. So I am grateful for the small reprieve.

I would probably go to the wedding if I were you because I feel like supporting family is a priority over everything else. It is the reason I still keep my temple recommend. I definitely wouldn’t be worried about not being worthy to go. You are praying and doing your best according to what Heavenly Father has communicated to you and that is all you can do. If you feel like you can mentally handle it, go and enjoy your family member’s day.

I just wish I could belong to a religion that didn’t make going to a family member’s joyful wedding such a stress and burden. Why should I even have to ask the question “Am a worthy to go to this wedding?” It just doesn’t seem right to me. (Sorry for the rant)

I’m glad you posted. This board is great place to be so that we don’t all feel alone in our thoughts and frustrations.

[Anonymous]

plainandtall wrote:

I just get disheartened because if all anyone does is quietly talk about these concerns in private, what is the mechanism for change? Without doing more, I feel complicit in the problem. If I saw sexism like this anywhere else (an organization, my family, anywhere), I would be (and am) SO outspoken about it. To remain relatively quiet about the temple seems incongruous (though in any situation, I would want to remain respectful of what is sacred about the temple).

I don’t know what the mechanism is but the temple ordinances have changed over the years. There were some relatively minor changes in 2005 and 2008. There were major changes in 1990 that came as the result of conducting a survey. I honestly wonder what prompted such a survey… and to be honest given how I see the church today I’m surprised that such drastic changes took place, all resulting from a survey. It makes me wonder how long the saints wanted to see those changes before they were finally made.

The only survey I’ve actually seen was about garments. That survey resulted in some of the more recent changes in sizing for women’s garments.

I wonder what would prompt another round of surveying that could have significant impact on how we do endowments. My guess is empty temples.

[Anonymous]

kate5 wrote:

I just wish I could belong to a religion that didn’t make going to a family member’s joyful wedding such a stress and burden. Why should I even have to ask the question “Am a worthy to go to this wedding?” It just doesn’t seem right to me. (Sorry for the rant)

Why is the church so resistant to having American marriage ceremonies outside the temple and then have the sealing inside? It would avoid so many hard feelings, and it’s the way it’s done in most countries.

[Author]

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